[RP Aid] [Discussion] Mortals in the Shadowlands

Argent Dawn
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It’s been a couple of weeks. There’s been some time to simmer on the lore. Let’s get down to brass tax.

Mortals can get to Oribos. Ol’ Emma can be found looking for her sons in Oribos. NPCs make mention that the influx of mortals is increasing. Not all mortals are Maw Walkers, but Steve Danuser has confirmed that Maw Walker is not a unique title and that there are multiple Maw Walkers. Prince Renethal makes mention that with 25 Champions like the Maw Walker, they could storm Nathria, which we promptly do.

I have seen people claim that all mortals must choose a covenant upon entering the Shadowlands. The closest source I’ve found on this is that the Maw Walker is told not to divide their attention, but rather to focus on one covenant and that other mortals will make other choices.

I invite everyone to contribute their own sources on the idea that all mortals are required to choose a covenant. If there’s questions in need of answering, feel free to ask them below to get discussions going.

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You find dead Maw Walkers (or was it just the one) who were tortured for anima supply in the Maw. In the notes it also mentions other captured Maw Walkers so plenty of folks with those titles end up failing in the Maw and straight-up die.

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This makes me wonder how people realize if they’re a Maw Walker or not. Is there some First One’s technology or something that reacts to a Maw Walker at Oribos? Do they just fling themselves into the stream of souls in Oribos and hope that the waystone in the Maw activates for them?

Sounds like a really dangerous gamble if it’s the latter.

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at the end of the four zones story before you choose your own covenant, during the zoom call with Prince Vampire, the Archon, Nobody and the Winter Queen, the Archon states very firmly that ALL mortals who come to the Shadowlands must choose a covenant. There’s really no two ways about the way she says it. If you want to go beyond Oribos, you’ll have to sign up with one of the four.

I’m more curious as to what makes one a Maw Walker.

Wish we knew, really.

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Then he looks at the camera

My theory was that it’s our connection to Azeroth via the Heart. I think there’s something funky with the Shadowlands and Titans ( my personal theory was that Argus’ battered soul somehow got to the Arbiter and redscreened it, plus the Winter Queen calls Eonar or Elune sister )

But if multiple Maw Walkers exist… well, was Magni giving out those necklaces like candy?

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Not only that, but there’s also a term established for it and used universally when you first even arrive there. From Oribos to the covenants to the Maw, which seems to me like the concept of Maw Walkers has been around since long before the heart of azeroth even existed, and that we are definitely not the first.

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I think this is the key part. I don’t believe the Archon was suggesting Ol’ Emma had to start proving herself to Maldraxxus, the point was more about the adventurer mortals needing to focus on restoring the realms. I don’t think the world beyond Oribos is exactly safe enough for the muggles to start wandering around it yet, but when it is I imagine they won’t need to declare an allegiance.

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Yeah 100%, I don’t imagine Ol’ Emma is being drafted into Maldraxxus as a new rising star of the arena.

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I suspect it’s a case of: if people really have business in Oribos, then the caretakers ‘n’ stuff don’t really mind. There’s a lot of trade going on there. If people are going to the covenant home realms, however, it’s expected that they’re going to deal with the anima drought /Jailer crisis and not for a holiday, and if people ARE helping with the crisis then they have to choose a covenant as well (so that, idk, they know where all the anima is going).

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That’s the key point to me.

If you want to leave the soul airport, you have to join a covenant and actually help that covenant for a prolonged amount of time. You can’t sign up then just bugger off back to Azeroth with fancy new magic and armour.

If I had to do it, I’d make it a long term guild thing where we stayed in the Shadowlands for most of the expansion, with only brief visits to Azeroth to have R&R or deal with personal matters. Where we would be “on leave” for a brief period.

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Someone who can walk the maw / enter and leave the maw like nothing ever happened…?

I mean I think that it’s totally feasible to go to Shadowlands and I don’t mind people doing it - so long it happens for the right reasons. (Something well written)

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I more mean as in, what is the difference between an individual that can interact with those waystones and one who can not. What is enabling them to do this

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Who knows my brother, chance, luck, plot armor :woman_shrugging:

Betraying people in among us

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:sunglasses:

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Ah, thank you, I forgot about that interaction. For completeness, I will include it here now.

Kyrestia the Firstborne says: You speak for Revendreth? Where is your sire? Where is our brother Denathrius?

Prince Renathal says: My sire… has betrayed us all.

Prince Renathal says: The drought was his doing. He stole the very lifeblood of our realms, starving his own people… and yours as well.

Prince Renathal says: When his lies were exposed, Denathrius unleashed his vast coffers of anima into the Maw… to fuel the might of his true master.

Kyrestia the Firstborne says: Long ago, we stood as one to imprison that… monster.

Kyrestia the Firstborne says: With the Primus gone and Denathrius a traitor, our pantheon has been broken… and doom comes for the Shadowlands.

Prince Renathal says: There is yet hope. This mortal saved me from the Maw and revealed the sire’s treachery.

Winter Queen says: They aided my forest as well. Their kind has shown great potential. If focused, it could turn the tide in our favor.

Kyrestia the Firstborne says: Agreed. For the good of the Shadowlands, each mortal must choose a covenant.

Winter Queen says: And when our realms have regained their strength, we will stand together against the darkness.

Tal-Inara says: I will see it done, Eternal Ones. With her voice have I spoken.

Tal-Inara says: Come, mortal. The hour of decision is at hand.

Given that this is pretty much exactly what happens before Tal-Inara explains the rationale for why the Maw Walker must choose one covenant.

Each covenant is vital to the Shadowlands. Though they often seem at odds with one another, this too is part of the Purpose. All the covenants need to grow strong to face the threat of the Jailer. But your efforts cannot be divided. / Each covenant is vital to the Shadowlands. Though they have been isolated and divided as of late, the Purpose depends on the success of their efforts. All of the covenants must bolster their strength to face the threat of the Banished One. But your contributions cannot be divided.

They [your efforts/contributions] must be focused upon a single path. Other mortals may make a different choice.

In light of what is being said here, we need to keep in mind some of the authorial intent. This is the game speaking to the players, right? It’s giving a rationale for why the mortals must focus their efforts; The covenants are too weak to stand against the dark, because of the anima drought and the lack of souls. The only people who can help the covenants return power to the Shadowlands are the Maw Walkers, who are mortals, because they can rescue the souls trapped in the Maw. And it would be better for the Maw Walkers to focus on one covenant at a time; to learn their ways and to restore their realm.

I think it is therefore safe to assume that Ol’ Emma and Griftah weren’t told to pick a covenant. They’re not those kind of mortals; they’re not able to help the covenants with the anima drought. So, in other words, not all mortals are bound to choose, because not all mortals are Maw Walkers, who are the only people who can meaningfully contribute to the problem that focusing the Maw Walkers’ efforts are supposed to solve.

However, there are more ways to contribute than that. It’s very clear that the Shadowlands deal with more problems than simply anima; they have issues of war to deal with as well. I suspect we will see more mortal activity in the next couple of patches, along the lines of mortal armies supporting those of the dead.

It is also possible that using Oribos as a waystation is actually too taxing on the anima reserves and that is why mortals are only allowed to enter Oribos.

TLDR: Thanks for pointing that out. In context, it seems to me that the council is talking about “people who can meaningfully contribute anima, aka maw walkers” rather than all mortals. Not all mortals can enter the maw, but mortals can still contribute to the battles that are taking place outside the maw without being maw walkers.

I think that’s the big question at the moment. Can regular mortals enter the realms other than the Maw or only Oribos?

EDIT: Addition:

Quest: Return Lost Souls
Description: Souls continue to pour into the maw. THeir anima, our very lifeblood of the Shadowlands, is going to those souls to fuel the Jailer. You rescued me from the Maw. I see no reason you cannot pull more souls from that abyss. Bring souls you rescue from the Maw to me and I shall put them to better use. At least in Revendreth they have a chance of redemption.

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I think you got the wrong conclusion there. The Maw Walkers aren’t the only one that make a meaningful contribution, we see in all zones that they struggle with issues that can be solved with Azeroth’s trademark export:

Excessive murder, and the subsequent looting of victims (for anima, this time!)

The conclusion I get out of it myself is that while going to Oribos is perfectly accessible, you have to be willing to fight for the Shadowlands if you plan to take up space/zip along on the anima wyrms i.e go beyond Oribos. If you go by the official route, anyway.

Really, I think Blizz wanted it to be Maw Walkers specifically I reckon they would’ve had the Archon say that, as countless NPCs do all expansion long, rather than just mortals.

So in short

Yeah, they can. But they’ll have to either find their own way there, somehow, or sign up for the skeleton war.

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I think I mentioned this in my post. Mortals can contribute, through warfare. They can requisition anima from what’s present in the realms. But they cannot replenish it from souls caught in the Maw.

And yeah, I think that it’s reasonable to expect that only those who fight for the Shadowlands will be able to jump through the hoops necessary to visit any one of the realms.

Really, I think Blizz wanted it to be Maw Walkers specifically I reckon they would’ve had the Archon say that, as countless NPCs do all expansion long, rather than just mortals.

I don’t know. Given that they were speaking in plural, I can imagine that “mortals” simply flowed better. For the player, “mortal”, “maw walker” and “champion” are all pretty much interchangable and I can imagine the writers approached it that way as well. I think it’s not a foregone conclusion that the writers intended for us to go through this interaction with a fine tooth comb and to conclude that this applies to literally all mortals in the Shadowlands.

The writers needed an excuse for why the player can be only part of one covenant, especially given complaints about the ripcord. Sometimes, it’s just not that deep.

That’s not to say that I don’t think you have a point. I think that you make a great point, but I don’t think it’s as conclusive as you’ve said it is and that may bear out in future patches. It’s not so conclusive that I’d feel comfortable stating in-character that mortals are definitely not allowed into Revendreth unless they picked a covenant. I think it’s something too easy for Blizzard to throw under the bus in a patch or two.

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As a sidenote to this discussion, where are you guys seeing Ol’ Emma and Griftah? I tried to find Emma where Wowpedia said she would be, but I can’t actually see her anywhere.

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The world needs all types of people to function. In Bastion and Revendreth even the NPCs have second class citizens that take care of the less glamorous tasks.

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You need to finish the story apparently. I’m assuming it’s the current covenant storyline that needs to be done, as the main campaign stuff up to 60 hasn’t seemed to have made her appear.