Scarlet Enclave needs to be tuned for 20man

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
1

Been joining a few pugs (35-40man raids)
2 times raid disbanded after first boss x amount of whipes
2 times we killed first boss and raid disbanded at Beatrix.

Our guildrun we had 33 ppl and cleared 5/8.

Raid is severly overtuned and playerbase is starting to bleed already.

This raid is tuned for the true basement dwellers with 20y + experience of the game.

Boss health need to be reduced, their damage needs to be reduced and their abilities.

First boss is somewhat fine, but for 20man its still too much. Reduce HP of adds by like 50%

Beatrix does way too much dmg at tanks, the debuff needs to have 50% increase dmg each stack instead of 100% (1 debuff and not fast enough tankswap=tank get 1 shot)

Solizstrasa TLPD boss is fine but abit too much dmg from whelps

Pirate at the beach is fine, but adds in ship seems to get % dmg increase based on the boss % dmg increase from being frozen, 2nd time getting cannonball i got 1shot as a tank.

Bearboss… Remove the random debuffs that happens, it kills melee as soon fight start almost every try. We killed the boss with casters only because our melee couldnt handle the debuffs.

Reborn council, they do waay too much dmg.
Heroids special ability hit me as a tank for almost 10k.
We did 3 tries as 33ppl then called it.

Please tune this raid for 20man and increase the loot of each boss.

The sweatlord speedrunners (most of them) already cleared it, let the dadgamers enjoy the raid now.

5 Likes
2

There probably will be nerfs to come let’s be honest.

Bear boss is just mechanics tho, Ur melee are dying because they aren’t doing what they need to.

5 closest players get 1 stack, move and another 5 become the closest.

Rotate every stack and damage is reasonable.

Issue is when all melee clump in close together and get 2 stacks they die… Now rest get 2 stacks now they die etc etc.

We had the same issue In our guild today but it’s because majority wanted to play the 1st raid blind with no tactics known etc.

Reborn looks mental but we stopped at 5/8 I highly see that getting nerfed.

3

We learned the mechanic of bearboss,

5 closest players get 1 stack, move and another 5 become the closest.

but if we for example only have 5 melee, and they get 1 nature stack each at Bear, they move human, get 5 fire stacks there, and then what?

Go in back behind casters wait for stacks to fall off so they can go in dps 5seconds again?

If they went back bear after fire stack they instantly got a new nature stack, and if they got 2 nature stacks along with 1 fire stack they died very fast.

4

Dadgamer here: We are enjoying the raid, no need to nerf it yet.

It’s getting a debuff over a period of time anyway.

1 Like
5

Honestly the first boss is fine, we had 22 people, 5 attempts going in blind and it went down. The 3rd and 4th boss Ive heard are pretty easy as well, just mechanical, give it enough attempts and you will get it down.

But the 2nd boss is a stonewall for most normal sized groups. It has already killed a lot of moral within the game, guilds and player being forced to delay something starting Ashbringer by a week, people lower in the queue to get it start quitting after realising they just wont be getting it.

If Beatrix at her current difficulty was like the 4th boss, I would have said it was a good progression raid, most groups getting 2/3 bosses down week 1, but the reality is most groups got 1 boss down, and that just feels bad, puts a lot of people off playing further knowing this is final phase and the player base is gunna drop off over the next few months.

6

skill issue

1 Like
7

We call them ranged but only the hunter can’t be on top of a boss and do a full rotation.

Ranged just have the luxury of not having a minimum range from target

Literally all u need to do is split the raid In Half. And go as close as u can to boss

If you are 1 of the 5 that get a stack. U step out so u are just behind the rest of your raid members.

By the time the next closest 5 get a stack yours will nearly drop off so u can swap again and it should drop before the 3rd stack is applied.

Most people are getting into trouble because they are swapping at 1 stack to the other boss but their applications of stacks are staggered so If u are closest u will end up getting one of each stack which hurts.

8

Your post is so full of nonsense that it’s hard to even start to dismantle it.
First. You claim the playerbase is starting to bleed already? What evidence do you have to support this? Exactly, none.
Second, and most important: you use the “dad guild argument” as if it means that every dad player is bad. Let me break it to you: the amount of time you play each day in no way determines whether you’re a good or bad player.

You want the raid nerfed so bad players can get wellfare epics. That’s wrong. Boring content causes people to bleed out, not engaging content.
I raid in a dad guild and before today’s fixes we 2 shot Balnazzar, 1 shot Beatrix and killed the dragon on our second attempt.
So stop asking for nerfs because you’re too terrible at the game.

9

No it’s not. My dad guild one shot her. So your argument falls flat on its face.
So what if you delay ashbringer by a week? Do you want to have less to do in the game?
And before the “it’s a seasonal server” argument gets used, let me remind you that it’s a folly. Expansions are also, by definition, seasonal. You get your chance to do the content. And if you can’t, tough.

10

First and second boss should not be the harder ones :smiling_face:
Its fine if bosses gets harder the further in the raid you go. Even in retail the first bosses are usually the easiest and the last one rhe hardest.

11

So stop asking for nerfs because you’re too terrible at the game

So mr chad gamer you did that as 20man i assume then? That the raid is suppose to be tuned for…

Dont act like you’re the godgamer when you zug it with 30-40ppl calling others bad.

If anyone, im sure you are more than terrible at the game and you probably havent even killed first boss.

I want the raid tuned for 20man. Thats it. I dont want to bring pugs to overfill raid to be able to beat enrage timers etc…

Second, and most important: you use the “dad guild argument” as if it means that every dad player is bad

By saying Dad gamer, i mean those who got a few hours to play every here and there, those who dont have 50k gold filled bags with consumes and 8-10hrs spare time to clear a raid…

I raid in a dad guild and before today’s fixes we 2 shot Balnazzar, 1 shot Beatrix and killed the dragon on our second attempt.

Link me your 20man logs you basement dweller

99% sure you did it with 30-40, if you enjoyed it. Or you got only 1-2boss down as 20.

Yea and that “debuff” makes parses, hours spent whiping all for nothing.
When i can just log in after 6weeks± faceroll the place with 30%dmg and 30% health.

Quit back in ICC when that buff arrived, had already cleared it full HC. Without any buff and 25man as it was tuned for.

1 Like
12

We did it with 25 people

I work more hours a month than you do.

We raid for 2hrs one day and 3 the other. Plenty of time to clear if you’re good enough.

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Also why am I arguing with someone who’s not even 60 yet?

14

We did it with 25 people

So you didnt clear it as 20 then… Try that before acting up.

I work more hours a month than you do.

Maybe i dont need to work work that much because i already worked enough, sad for you.

We raid for 2hrs one day and 3 the other. Plenty of time to clear if you’re good enough.

So you saying you’re not good enough then? 25ppl 5hours and only 3 boss down?

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We are. It’s just gonna take us a bit of time to do it. And we don’t want nerfs. That is my whole point. And it flew right over your head.

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And even with all this time to play you want nerfs. And then you have the temerity to call me a basement dweller.

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17

They dont, thats the point. Dont think of it as swapping bosses on 1 stack.

its tuned for 20 players.

split it in half, 10 on human, 10 on bear.

5 in each group.

Group 1 / 3 get their debuff.
Swap places with the remaining players on their boss.

you never swap boss, just the 5 closest players on each boss

The only people this should even cause an issue is with hunters and their stupid dead zone. But suck it up, stand in close for couple of seconds til u get a debuff then move out

1 Like
18

Well, 24.5; one of our guildies is kind of dead weight; but her boyfriend is great so it is what it is.

We’ve had 3 hours in SE, missed one raid day this week due to Blizzard being stupid and always releasing new content on a Thursday night instead of just on Wednesday server reset.

We did 4 bosses in our 3 hour run.

The raid is tuned for 20 GOOD players, not 20 randoms. We could have shaved a couple people off and would have still been fine. A couple more runs and we’ll be at 8/8.

The raid doesn’t need nerfing. Content doesn’t need to be steamroll’d by literally everyone on the first week of release.

Then you quit for 6 weeks if you just want a braindead loot pinata. Yet the rest of us enjoy some of the first new content that SoD has release. This is literally what we were waiting for for nearly a year.

Did you wait all your life to lose your virginity and then blow your load in 45 seconds? Because that’s what you’re asking for.

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19

But your argument is based entirely on your own experience and nothing else, which is completely and utterly invalid.

We literally have statistic through WCL to prove you are completely wrong.

For English EU guilds, Naxx mythic 20 man has a total of 411 guilds log the raid, 216 of them killing KT. So that give us a good benchmark.

Now look at SE, EU English Guilds again. a total of only 90 guild have logged kills in the raid (yes i get its week one so we can expect lower numbers overall, but only 90 out of a potential 411? That is pretty clear that a lot of team are actually stuck on the first boss or have moved to larger teams). You can prove this further looking at all the wipe logs showing more 20 man teams failing on the first boss and therefore not contributing to the overall guild number.

Out of the 90 guild logging kills, 40 of them only killed 1 boss and consider that the people going 20 man in week one are some of the highest parses in the game.

This is a raid said to be balanced around 20 man, so why are so many struggling and okay, a lot of guild maintain a raid team of 20-25 people so they can keep going when people takes a week off.

But just look at the majority of people logging in the 40 man category The rank 1 EU guild had a total of 76 unique characters, they where 40 manning a raid designed for 20 over multiple nights pugging in loads of people to make it up damage and healing required.

You can check the logs yourself. The average raid team, composed of 20 to 25 people can’t kill this boss and are relying on stacking up to 30 to 40 people to get the 2nd boss down and suggesting that guilds should go up to extreme sizes to clear as it was is ridiculous.

That being said, lucky, Blizzard listened to people with sense and already nerfed it.
I also agree with their sentiment in their update post, if this had been the 4th or 5th boss, I wouldn’t mind the original difficulty, it feels good to progress, get some gear, hit a wall, come in next week and do better, but stonewalling the vast majority of groups or any normal size at the second boss is not good design or fun, it’s just bad and yes, pushing back Ashbringer in the final phase will lead to people quitting sooner…

The population of the game will get lower and lower each week past this point, a lot of people might stay for Ashbringer as final goal, but if you are already 3rd, 4th, 5th on the list to get it in your guild, pushing that back another week will demoralise people.

People cleared naxx in vanilla and that gear was good into the first raid tier of TBC, the character continues to exist and having that stuff from current content meant something. SoD is endling, sure the servers might stay up, just like era, dead… It’s not the same as expansions.

But again, difficulty wasn’t the issue, it was the order, every group said the 3rd and 4th boss where much easier than the 2nd, swap them around and most people would have been fine with it.

20

I dunno we cleared boss 1 with 19 players and boss 2 pre recent nerf with 20.

Was a good challenge and fun raid tbh.

I think if people can’t kill it as 20 then the trade off is to bring more people and have less chance at loot.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.