Seen a lot of people crying about the Capstone for Retribution and how they don’t want to do the twisting style of gameplay, so much so that I’m genuinely worried Blizz is going to listen to these people and remove it altogether, making the class another generic mele that uses magic…
Honestly, I’m most likely in a minority here, but I really enjoy the twisting style of gameplay, I’d actually rather it just be the same as it was in BC instead of making it a Capstone, but beggers can’t be choosers, however, if they remove that entirely then the class is dead to me, I don’t want to play a light version of a deathknight or a spellchucking warrior, the feeling you get when you do a perfect twist and everything crits, unmatched in this game in my honest opinion and sure, it’s a playstyle that isn’t for everyone, I’d argue it’s a playstyle not catered to casuals, ok, change the capstone, keep twisting in the game as it was so people who enjoy that kind of play can still do it, and make a capstone that can give the casual andys something else to press and still do damage.
I don’t want the one class I actually enjoy playing to be added into the homogenous mele group, please don’t change it, if anything, remove the “need” for them to twist with the capstone, give them something more braindead and keep twisting as it use to be for the ones who love it, it’s the reason we even play this class in classic to begin with.
twisting means that when u use judgement ur seal is gone and then u need to re-apply seal again? If so then I agree, they completely destroyed paladins in my opinion. I never played one on 60lvl but I experienced this during leveling, and it was so much fun to me personally that I really cannot enjoy new paladin that looks as people say paladin in wotlk, which is huge downgrade to gameplay and that ‘‘old’’ vanilla vibes.
They changed so many things to combat and its really annoying, thats why I refunded cuz I dont believe in project anymore and I leveled my character from 30s to 60lvl yesterday in era, because I want to have char in era because I truly believe era is forever, this classic+ version is gonna fail the soon the better I think.
They completely destroyed my main class - hunter. Now auto shot works a lot differently and sometimes before aimed shot it triggers auto shot, which is so weird considering u want to open with aimed shot and what if it fails and breaks traps / pulls bosses etc before aimed goes off. Idk what they did to auto shot, but it messes up the gameplay and overall feel of the class. Same goes for warriors and scaling, they numb everything and make it boring.
Just like totem twisting you have a small window to change seals on each swing to get both effects. Usually you have a weak aura or addon for this that you stare at
I am most likely going to play Paladin in Forever which is why this topic interests me quite a bit. Tbh, seal twisting does not sound that interesting gameplay but I cannot judge before I have tested it out myself so I will try to examine this from neutral pov.
If I understand correctly, seal twisting has heavily divided opinions among the Paladin community, right? If so, this can lead to issues especially later when a lot of people have actually used the capstone talent and are not happy with it. This can lead to massive negative feedback waves.
I was wondering, is there a way to design something new but keep the seal twisting as an option as Rustynuts suggested?
First choice-talent incoming. Just kidding but perhaps there is another way to make this happen…
People call it bar watching…experienced people learn the timing, it’s an ADHD issue with most players it seems, but yeah, I’d much rather they just made seals work the way they did in Vanilla/BC and change the Capstone to something the normies will enjoy without damaging the playstyle for either
You have actually understood what the talent does don’t you? this is not seal twisting, this is monkey bashing, your small window is now the swing time of your weapon, wich if you have a 3+ seconds swing time allows you to activate 2 seals each time between swings so with the talent its Seal of command, Seal of righteousness, Swing, Seal of command Righteousness Swing so you have 2+ (depending if you have windfury) chances to proc seal of command each swing. Theres NO skill involved and for single target dps, its arguable if holy strike and judgement are even still on the table, in terms of dps. The intend, and how its implemented are so far away referring the talent with seal twisting is a joke. Its not an expression of skill, there no chance to fail, the only thing that it asks of you is “do you understand you need a weapon slower then 3 seconds” and "are you ok with pressing the same 2 buttons (or one with a macro) twice on gcd, then wait the however much time the weapon is over 3 seconds and repeat them.
It goes from look mommy i did it correctly 17x in a row to look at my parse my initial judgement walking to it actually critted thats why im at 100 parse instead of 99 parse this boss.
Its Boring for those who enjoy seal twisting, its worse for those who don’t enjoy it, and frankly less then 10% of paladin players actually enjoy that playstyle, and its our capstone.
Also changing the playstyle at level 40 is terribad as well, if you want to keep seal twisting like this is should be an inbuild skill from level 1 or our 11 point spike not this
Seal twisting was only a thing in TBC Classic with the existence of Seal of Blood. It was something that distinguished good Ret Paladins from ones that only auto attacked and pressed judgement and that was clearly reflected when looking at the damage meters. In its current form it has neither a reason to exist without the addition of Seal of Blood, nor is it a form of skill expression. It’s just bad ‘middle ground that no one likes’ kind of deal. If Blizzard wants to add actual seal twisting to Classic, they should remove this terrible capstone and add Seal of Blood instead and have people do it the way it was done in TBC. But they won’t do that, because it would require Ret players to actually put in a sliver of effort into their rotation.
I don’t see twisting remaining as a game mechanic, old or new. Old way is something only few are going to enjoy. The new way is something nobody enjoys.
Good thing too, because it’s crap. Sure, you can go shockadin and not worry about twisting at all, but it’s not exactly a perfect solution either. Doesn’t feel good to abandon your capstone talent, while effectively having Holy Shock be the new capstone, something you are going to unlock much later, if you want to be ret.
If we are going to have any kind of balance, which looks like Blizzard is going for, and we are doing this “forever”, then these emergent gameplay mechanics need to go. I just don’t see them surviving. It’s going to be a controversial decision, whatever they choose to do.
Do you realize what the WORST part of seal twisting is? they are halving all seal damage by 50% because it exists.
According to their balancing if you give something you need to take something to have it balanced. So they give us 2 seals on auto attacks, so they need to take something, wich means they purposely lower seal damage by 50% all because of a talent NOBODY enjoys or ASKED for
The version of seal twist we are getting in Forever is not like the normal seal twisting though, its a lot easier.
And its not like old seal twisting was particularly difficult either.
Also, from what i can tell in terms of talent placements and the type of gear available, i believe shockadin will be a viable option for people that dont want to twist.
I was a bit surprised that they made it like THE retribution mechanic though.
I think SoD did a lot of good thing with the paladin class, you could be exodin, shockadin, seal twist, seal stacking or wrathlike, it all just boiled down to your gear setup, how many APM’s you were comfortable with, or how complex you wanted your rotations to be.
As a top 1% Ret for many years now, I hope they remove seal twisting and twist of light, nothing bores me more to any degree than watching or anticipating swing timers…nothing, just give us another ability to press but remove it from the game entirely, because if you don’t fix it but give us an ability then I can’t help but think we’d be OP being able to utilise both (and we reluctantly will) and blizzard have clearly stated they don’t want hybrids at the top
It was a bug that should of been fixed decades ago now, but instead it’s remained and people have made it their personality…And it forces everyone who despises it to do it to compete
There is no middle ground on which both sides will agree on.
When “true” twisting is added to the game the twisters expect to gain a bit of DPS+ for their “extra work”. Which basically means everyone playing for logs will be forced to play the Sealtwist.
I have no problem with sealtwist as a playstyle. I just want it never to be the no.1 dps playstyle for paladin.
If it’s one playstyle among others it is totally fine as long as it’s not the one with the highest dps outcome on bosses.
The only agreement we reach (also on Light Club discord) is that “Twist of Light” is a bad solution. It tries to make Sealtwist “easier” (which the Sealtwist enjoyers dont like) while still keeping the basic idea of having 2 seals active as once…which leads to an pure autohit Bot playstyle (which the Sealtwist-Rejecter dont like).
My favourite solution: Just bring SoD playstyle back:
I know people hate the playstyle…it’s why i don’t play rogues, i hate the playstyle, i wouldn’t play a rogue knowing i’m not going to enjoy it and then cry to get the way they’re played changed just because I can’t or don’t want to do it, as that wouldn’t be fair to the rogues who love the way they play their class.
Just kidding but perhaps there is another way to make this happen…