Sentience, sapience, intelligence

Lore Story
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Hi everyone
I’m having a hard time fully grasping terms such as “sentience” and “sapience” in the context of this game. They’re abundantly used to describe species of WoW’s universe, including ingame as well as in official lore ressources like the Chronicle series. Do they have the same meaning?
My guess is that “sapient” is employed to refer to species that display particular cognitive abilities such as using language, crafting, wearing clothes, using weapons, establishing cultures, societies, hierarchies, architecture and so on. Or maybe it is more about the level of self-awareness, awareness of identity and alterity (stuff like the famous “mirror test” in reality) etc.
“Sentience”, on the other hand, would only indicate that what’s referred to is able to feel (hunger, fear, excitement…). In that case, most lifeforms are sentient.

The thing is, in WoW lore, both terms are often used interchangeably. Sometimes “sentience” seems to mean “able to feel” (e.g. the Evergrowth on Draenor made plant life gain a united sentience), sometimes “sentient race” just straight up refers to what I described as “sapient”.

This might sound like details and conceptual discussions but I think it becomes interesting when you confront that to actual examples from WoW.
We can summarize the idea as “sentient/sapient means having intelligence that allows the species to develop culture and stuff, though the degree of intelligence can vary and range from Troggs to Elves”. But some species blurr the lines.

For example :

  • Wyverns/Gryphons. Both are seen as regular mounts, but Wyverns actually decided to join the Horde because it helped them free from the Harpies. They can even speak Orcish and Taur-ahe. Gryphons are also highly intelligent and their relationship with Dwarves is described as nothing less than “friendship”.
  • The Breakers line. Magnaron, Gronn, Gronnling, Ogron, Ogres and Orcs all display sentience/sapience, even on crude levels. The Goren are problematic. It seems they can’t speak, are often referred to as “beasts”, and the ones that have joined the Horde are called “Tamed” Goren. But they have named colonies, have been reported to use weapons on occasions, and are part of a line whose every single representant, even the most primitive ones, have complex thought. Interesting to note, too, that we can actually mount Gronn and Ogron, despite them being sapient…
  • Barren Raptors. Raptors are one of the most common beasts in WoW and even though they’re regularly described as intelligent, they’re just, well, intelligent beasts, in the same fashion as, let’s say, dolphins are,. Raptors from the Barrens stand out though. They wear accessories such as necklaces, build basic huts, craft pottery, and have been reported to attack convoys to steal money - thus they are aware of the value of gold…
  • Elementals. Though the ones mages summon seem to be mindless constructs, natural elementals are native sentient/sapient species. They have feelings, can and will wear accessories, have hierarchies, recognize each other as individuals. So they’re not just the “spontaneous expression of natural elements” they tend to be depicted as. However, Chronicle 1 does inform us that, when their planet is rich in Spirit (the Fifth Element), as it was the case in Draenor at first, Elementals are calm and thus don’t take physical forms… So where do they stand ?
  • The Undead. Forsaken are aware, they have free will, feelings (however twisted), morals (however twisted), etc etc, we all know that. But actually even Undead at further degrees of decay and Scourge control can display sentience/sapience on individual levels : some Zombies, some Ghouls even, are vendors, flight masters etc throughout Azeroth.

I’m sure I’m missing many. My point is, I think understanding what “intelligence” means in WoW could be interesting to analyze some tensions and power relationships : is mounting this species slavery ? Is killing random mobs actually engaging into a war with a sentient race ? The problem is, the description of what “intelligence” means is rather inconsistent.

What are you guys’ thoughts on this matter ?

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There is only as much or as little of it in every creature as the plot demands, sadly.

Yup. Coherency is not one of blizz strong sides.

I mean, it’s like with stewards. If they enjoy it, should we apply the irl ideas to cretures that existed and seemed rather happy and successful with their state for probably longer than Azeroth exists.

If gryphons see such lifestyle as fulfilling, why not?

Devs can’t even consistently explain what they want from the most central themes. Voss is pondering around “free will” with Zelling… after being perfectly fine with forcing others into undead. And instead of some sort of spiritual journey for Lilian to actually figure out what is it to her - something she believes in, or something to win style points in front of Zelling, it just pretends that everything is fine, and you can tell just fine a story about “free will for selected dev favourites” and then talk in interviews about moral lessons in the game.

My thoughts? Well, on PTR there are events like, the Jailer going further unravel the reality, and destroy everything (for arbitrary definition of “everything”). And what do I see characters say?

Ve’nari : «A very profitable effort, indeed» Theotar : «Tubbins, prepare another pot. It seems we have guests.»

And honestly, given that Ardenweald theater into is one of my favourite quest in the game, I would be glad to see more of that.

And among the rest - I just view it as an old school point-and-click adventure. I just pick interesting lines / visuals. and see if there is an interesting story could be made out of them.

Enjoy what is decent, avoid what is awful. And share the stuff if you’ll be in a mood to do so.

(on topic of the actual question - there would need to be rigorous execution to tell such stories, and WoW with chasing “cool” moments is not that. So it will be whatever the plot demands IMO)

gl hf

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I agree with you when you say that they can twist their own lore into anything that fits the needs of their new ideas. But at the same time, reading the Chronicle series I found them quite eager to build a world that makes sense, and also quite eager to address things such as the ones I mentioned in the first post. So I think we can still discuss them without over-intellectualizing too much

As you pointed out there’s a big consistency problem. When it comes to intelligence I think the Ogres best illustrate it . The game constantly tells me that they have the IQ of an Abomination, and then I read the official lore and not so long ago they were freaking Arcane prodigees who outsmarted the Arakkoa who taught them the arts. Help

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most of the intelligent ogres were killed off / died when the ogre empire fail / enslaved into the horde.

thats why most modern ogres are stupid and the 2headed ones are the only intelligent ones

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Yeah but the gap between being an Arcane genius and being systematically depicted as a “me smash rock” joke of a race is kind of huge don’t you think?

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I don’t really think that the different degrees of intelligence are that important here. As primitive as Ogres, Frost Trolls, Kobolds, Quillboar and so on may be, they are all capable of language and even of developing their own culture. With these we aren’t talking abot fish or even dogs, we are talking about creatures that have no problem keeping up with the best of the apes.

And I really don’t have to be much of a animal rights person to think that forcing someone on that level to work, or culling their population, certainly qualifies as slavery and warfare, with all the moral condemnation that entails.

And yes, I don’t see why that wouldn’t extend to non-humanoids. If Wyverns are able to comminicate abstract thoughts, they have some kind of language, and if they can decide to join the Horde as a group, they certainly have some kind of culture. We’re less likely to empathize with creatures the less they look and act like us, but if we think that rights come from the nature of the beings, and not from our feelings towards the beings, that shouldn’t really matter. And I don’t really need to know how intelligent they are, if I already accepted that they are intelligent enough to be treated as a person.

But like Chrono said, we aren’t really supposed to moralize situations in which we act with non-player-races, if the devs aren’t signaling us that we should. The plot will make less sense instead of more, if you try to stay morally consistent, because the devs certainly aren’t.

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i think the lore is that 2headed ogres are rare and thus the 2heads make them more intelligent.

most of the ogre race is stupid if we are going off azeroth ogres and not alternate draenor.

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I fundamentally agree on that. The “level of intelligence” (which btw would be hard to evaluate fairly - what traits do we take into consideration?) is not frankly relevant, outside of maybe understanding how races view each other. What matters is achieving sapience thought : once you’re sapient, be it Makrura or Draenei, you’re an organized force to be interacted with. I like that about WoW.

I wasn’t really intending to step into moral considerations, it’s more like the subject intrigues me because I think it can give keys to understand what place each species has in the universe

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