You do realise for a community to work it needs and environment amenable to it?
Convenience makes people lazy; and people, in case you haven’t noticed, act like an entity conforming to the standard, more or less. Toxic and cold player relations are like a disease, and it spreads to become the norm.
This kind of mindless ‘well don’t do it then’ or ‘just make groups’ is hilariously ignorant of basic human psychology. That’s not how the world works and when there are no consequences for bad behaviour, well, it’s pretty clear what happens. When there’s no culture of cooperation, one can’t expect to create one out of thin air.
People become either active participants in toxicity, or they become apathetic to it. Again, it’s the norm and people generally conform.
Servers absolutely need to be enclosed to allow organic self-governance. You act like a scumbag enough and you become infamous. They also need to be isolated so a community can actually re-develop so people actually remember each other and form bonds that make them WANT to group up, genuinely and not just for purely self-serving reasons.
There are studies that show how human memory and identity recognition work. In layman’s terms we are genetically conditioned through hundreds of thousands of not millions of years to be socially adaptable, ro recognise and easily interact with around 200 people, archaeologists and biologists theorise this is because a basic tribe/clan of early humans numbered between 150-200, very close to the figures needed for continuation of the species strangely enough, it is only relatively recently that we as a species have started to gather together in ever greater numbers.
When blizzard merge servers, begins sharding alongside CRZ, LFD and LFG then one can summarise from those studies that any community especially an online community will break down quickly. Even if you have a 1000 friends on social sites the chances are you rarely if ever interact with more than 20 on a regular basis.
If social sciences are applied and studied correctly on serious concerns and not issues such as gender identity then the results of such studies could be implemented for more successful artificial community building such as wow and other MMO’s.
They actually are implemented and used building some MMO’s. For example Dunbar’s Layers you are talking about in first part of your posts are one part of research and practises used by some gamemakers to build MMO’s that support better social interaction. They use Dunbar’s Layers as tool (amongst other things like for example knowledge of trust levels and what activities are low and what high trust activities etc.) to have right balance on group size, difficulty as well as system that brings people together right times and tools players need for interaction. There is lot of research done and going on in social sciences about gaming in general, playertypes, game design and such. I hope Blizzard will also start to use this research to their (and players) benefit!
This sounds like a good way to get rid off all LFG/LFR haters for good. I support this! I suggest Blizzard will put new pet for Blizzard store where 50% of profits goes to funding this server so we can make it happen. Make it angry looking duck and i promise to buy several of them
because i’m also talking about banning cross realm, do pugging while behaving like a douche will make you uninvitable pretty quickly, since people will start to know you since the playerbase would be greatly reduced.
You would have got that point if you wouldn’t read with your head up your rear.
Yes because it’s well known I can only make blood elves. WoW has never given me the ability to make other alts.
Oh, is cross realm going to get rid of it then?
As if
All it does is funnel the elitists more and more. This isn’t going to magically make people hold hands in kumbaya.
If there’s a chance for a bad person to go into power, they ARE going to, and people will follow by example like sheep. Realm has nothing to do with it except maybe make a random server or two be ran by sheep for a year or two before a wolf comes over and takes them.
I would very much like to play on a server without LFR or Dungeon finder. They dont 100% kill the social aspect of the game, but it sure does take a big hit
Contrary to what probably OP is thinking there are people like me and countless of others which think how the existence of the cross-realm LFG option in the game did enriched our gaming experience because since its introduction we are not limited anymore to play with just a certain limited in number pool of the players from our own servers but we now have the option to make friends and group up with the players from others servers to, and because of this option to the various communities flourish daily within game in which participate the players which share the same common interests for different types of activities in the game. Removing this option would make the gaming experience worse for a lot of the players.
Besides this I also can say how the existence of the optional tools like DF and LFR don’t rly in any shape or form prevent the players which want to be social within the game, group up in a different ways and do the content which can’t be done by using them if they want to do so.
It most certainly does not enrich World of Warcraft, which is an MMO, with CRZ+LFG which breeds bad behaviour and just ‘unsocial’ attitudes.
We aren’t talking about a session based co-op game like LoL here - though to look at people like you and indeed development philosophy one would be forgiven for mistaking it for one - it IS an MMORPG.
Until they come out and state explicitly “World of Warcraft is not an MMORPG” I will continue to criticise bad design choices which actively destroy MMO aspects. Oh and that’s actually not an opinion-- if you claim to be making an MMO, well, it really needs to avoid making features that conflict.
In other words you can like whatever you want, but you are wrong if you think CRZ+LFG is good for this particular genre. There is absolutely no argument against the fact it has CLEARLY demolished server communities-- and server communities kind of matter considering it the the actual game itself. We play on servers, we don’t play on Discord.
The fact that I can group up and make friends with the people from other servers, and be part of the various different communities which exist within the game ( and no we don’t need strictly Discord to communicate which also the guilds use now to since the Blizzard implemented the option for the communities within the game for that ) thanks to the cross-realm LFG option doesn’t make this game any less an MMO-RPG. And from my experience it doesn’t breeds any bad behavior which we didn’t already had before its existence from the players. And the communities on the servers still exist, they are called guilds. Besides nothing is preventing now the players which want to make friends on the servers they play on to go out and find them.
It sounds like we have a disconnect due to difference in what content we play. I haven’t used a random LFG in months except for 1 LFR run.
What you want removed is something that is never used after 1 week of gameplay if you are at least decent. You will very quickly get to a point where you are gonna be using the manual group finder, which is just a smooth and cross server version of spamming trade chat.
What i experience when pushing higher content that LFG, is that people are cooperating, cause you ain’t doing 18 keys without it. I am gonna join a group and most of the time that pug group is gonna discord, discuss route, i think you just need to get to a place where this happens instead of dabbling in the lowest possible content and complaining it is bad.
I do understand wanting to be reputable, where people on your server knows your name, but nowadays that is just not gonna happen. I know a few really good players by name, but i can’t even name 10 insanely good players on my realm (2nd biggest in europe) outside of maybe the best of the class i play. But i will tell you, when pugging and doing my own groups, i meet the same people and i know a few people based on their names and will recognize them, but you need to get to that small sample of players in order for this to happen.
What you are basically suggesting is making a server that has removed irrelevant content, making it take much longer get past that point and into what you want, and for any decent player, they are gonna be through that toxicity in 1 week, and in some cases, like for my newest alt, i had to play it for 3 hours and then onto what you want basically.
To be honest here before even cross-realm grouping become one of options in the game if you played on the any decent sized server and not a small one you didn’t knew everyone on it, you knew mostly few good people to which you interacted to and grouped with outside of your guild. Now with that option being in the game the only difference is that the number of the players with which we can group did widen. But basically everything else is the same, to make friends and be respected among the circle of players no matter are they on the same server or the other ones or part of the community the players still need to both prove that they have a good character that anyone would even want to consider taking them as a friend or accept them into the community, and a skill decent enough to add to their teams for the content they do.
I didn’t say remove it for anyone, I said to create servers without it.
You are correct, it doesn’t prevent people from being social but it does make it harder to find those people. Before the introduction of those tools you had to speak to people, group together and communicate. How many times have you been in dungeons or raids where no one speaks except the odd troll in LFR or someone just spamming how terrible everyone else is?
I have no doubt that those tools have made the game easier for people and even enriched it for others such as your self but as I have stated this isn’t about removing those tools but more about possible fixes to community issues that have arisen from the implementation of those tools.
Maybe you should do something beyond LFR and RHC what is by this point outgeared pull everything to boss killl fest.Times changes expecting same lack of knowledge of basic like 15 years ago is dumb people are smarter and better than back then so talking about today standard things /basic like what to do etc on something what at this point at lvl cap you already seen/experienced while lvling is …
I was thinking the same thing. When you PuG it’s far from a lovely social experience. The worst experiences with other players are generally in PuG environments.
It was being server bound that caused people who behaved badly to not be able to escape their reputation.
LFR/LFD have done great things for the game. People can easily find others when levelling, people can see raids without having the stress of complicated tactics. No matter how casual you play you are not excluded from a huge proportion of the game.
Honestly not many since I’m social by nature and whenever I’m grouped with other players I try to start some kind of interaction if its not already in the place.
I’m not using much DF and LFR tools tho coz I’m doing higher content than what can be done by them, and for that when I’m grouped with the players no matter am I grouping through the communities or through the LFG the communication is required to get our runs done as smoothly as possible.
Before the introduction of those tools I would in 90 % cases group with the players from my own guild and sometimes if we would need to fill an empty spot I would look for someone to join from the server, nowadays I can also instead of that invite someone who I met and with who I had a good experience with from the people I did the content with through those tools and who I added to my list of contacts.
No idea what you do but so far i had 96% great experience with pug guess nooone says good things and just whine/say about something bad happening to them not talking about rest you guys are … Treat others like you want to be treated i like pug.
Same, the times has changed, we aren’t in vanilla or TBC anymore, the game has advanced and modernized. People use all possible tools to interact with other people which they have on disposal.
