Sets issue - can we have a PvP bonuses next expansion

PVP Arenas
1

Hi guys,

There is an ongoing discussion regarding set pieces on Twitter. I think it started with Raiku posting about it. I’ll try to present all issues I find problematic regarding sets and what I can see as solution to it.

First of all not every set bonus feels useful in PvP. You have bonuses like BM which is just a dps increase and cd reduction on BW or bonuses like R Shaman built around Healing Rain that I cannot see being useful in any form of PvP considering arenas or RBGs because people rarely stand still there.

Secondly, some of the tier pieces have plenty of versa (leather ones) and some barely have any (cloth, plate, mail). This makes some specs ignoring set bonuses and going for stats. This is against the idea of set bonuses. If they are universal then everyone should be able to play them. Having some specs getting free set bonus and some not getting it at all doesn’t seem fair.

Moreover Blizzard noticed these issues raised to them by players and since 10.1 is getting released soon they decided to nerf some of the set bonuses by 50%. This makes some specs even less likely to pick them. This is huge disappointment.

So what do I see as a possible solution to it. Firstly as I workaround I’d disable all set bonuses in PvP just to make it fair. Either eveeyone has it or nobody. As a real solution that 100% won’t happen this season I’d create a separate PvP tier bonuses. It can be like TBC - WoD. I bonus for the whole expansion but still. In the past it used to be that hands gave a small bonus like few yd more range on Interrupt and then something like shorter Disarm duration on Warriors etc. This can solve some balance PvP issues.

What do you think about it guys?

7 Likes
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I’m on board with it but only if they create PvP specific tier sets these should be about utility solely. Any bonuses which are basically just dps increases are hard to balance in a fair way.

1 Like
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Yes and no. Some specs need some love like H Pala. For example if Set would bring back short cast on Holy Light with Infusion of Light I wouldn’t mind. Depends on spec. I’d love sets to fix spec issues. If spec is tanky in PvE but not in PvP it might just adjust it.

4

Id just disable the sets for PvP for now and actually put effort into doing something fun or interesting for PvP, since all the tier sets do now is either underperforming or overperforming, extremely hard to balance classes around tier sets with different effects.
Especially when leathers have like 1200 vers vs around 160-200 for the rest so they dont suffer anything but can still go for 2-4set but rest has to choose between theirs or more vers.

5

Not sure if I would like a pvp set , as it feels like they are too unsure what to do with pvp .

With had a whole a pvp set ( Drakebreaker’s ) , which we got trough pvp and it was not even usable in most pvp plays outside of world pvp , because bonuses would be (game braking ?).
On the other side :
You have the catalyst which can convert the PVE set to PVP and bring the whole lot of (game braking bonuses ?) in the PVP game , but at the same time you cannot convert PVE gear to PVP .
You have professions which craft interesting trinkets , weapons , tools and more (think engineering etc) and these cannot be used in PVP because (reasons?).

All the above leads me to believe the PVP gear and item lvl is an afterthought . This means that no probably there will be no PVP sets (probably of the best) , or if there were they would be a recolor with the same PVE set with versatility stats and some lame bonus like +5% stun reduced duration .

If anything I want a token I can slap onto PVE gear to add it PVP item lvl (and maybe adjust its stats) , so i can use a single set of gear .

1 Like
6

I’m fine with no set bonus for pvp, but if we must have then it should definitely be the old school way with very small bonuses specifically made for PvP for each spec

1 Like
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I think they already made the first right step when it comes to PvP gearing,which is it being easy and fast and specifically targeted for PvP (PvP gear being the best for PvP and not for PvE). The idea of a separate PvP set bonus like the mentioned TBC/WoD examples is a good direction I’d say, just look at the Forbidden Reach purple gear set that you can farm now: It gives unique and useful bonuses across the board, and it’s the same for everyone.
Versatility might as well could become a PvP exclusive stat like Resilience was back then, as not many specs use it in PvE right now anyway.

1 Like
8

Completely agree with everything you said. The current system is just not working for PVP.

1 Like
9

There is a problem with what you said. Some bonuses like BM are extremely strong because they are passive damage increase on the most used spells in PvP while some are extremely weak. There is no way that you can make Healing Rain work in arena or RBG. The only time I could see that strat work was Efflorescence cheese in BFA, SL but it was situational.

In TBC - WoD time we had different PvE tiers every season and 1 PvP tier set for whole expansion. It only got the amount of stats updated each season. PvE sets were more dmg oriented while PvP ones were more about utility like I mentioned shorter Disarms for Warrior or Flametongue also applying Frostbrand slow. That’s what I’m asking for. Current sets are more designed around PvE and more specifically raiding so some of them are underperforming in PvP or M+

2 Likes
10

I get where you are coming from and I am not entirely against PvP set bonuses , but I do not want to keep multiple sets of gear . I already struggle with bag space .

Also Not every set bonus is supposed to be “Great” . There are some se bonuses that are simply not great and the more situational a bonus is , to me the better that set bonus is . In tbc/vanilla you had set bonuses like corruption heals you for 80 when it does damage and that was fine .

Having +15% damage on x is simply stupid and pointless . Just add it to the patch notes if you are going to balance around it .
Set bonus like the current world pvp gear :
get stunned > gain shield is good
kill people > grow stronger is good
+100 versatility >> bad .

What I personally want is to be able to use any gear in PVP .
Imagine farming 1000 honor >>> Buy a token with that >>> Put it on any gear (even green gear ) and boost it’s pvp item lvl to 405(or whatever the next honor gear lvl will be) or smth .
If you want to add pvp set bonuses to that go ahead , I don’t mind , but please don’t add specific PVP gear .

If possible also do not disable PVE bonuses or gear effects .
Scripted pvp is boring .Using bombs , weird trinkets , proc effects is interesting at least to me and I see nothing wrong with it .

11

Please uninstall

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You still play PvP and PvE different. You go for different stats and different talents. What’s the point of pretending “I don’t want a second set of gear” but you do now anyway.

If you don’t do it. You can still do it. No offence here but in the bracket you play you can still keep playing in the same gear you do now. Optimizing makes sense once you reach a bit higher.

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Yea it is true if you wnat to min /max (which i do not) and I really do not have any other set . That’s the set I use for pvp and pve . It is not bis but it is multipurpose and gets the job done .
If you spent the time reading what I wrote last 2 comments you should have seen , I am not against set bonuses , but against specific iterations of them , which make a set of gear required .

If you have something that needs fixing , fix it in the patch notes . The set bonus is a bad way to fix dps / cc issues , because without it you are useless . Make interesting set bonuses , not just + % or -% modifiers .

PvP set bonuses creates problems :
1: once you switch to pvp or create a fresh char , not only are you stats bellow due to poor gear , now you are also gimped by broken mechanics .
2: It forces you into a single piece of gear , where you ignore any stats/ bonuses for the sake of the set bonus and practically locks that gear slot out .
I hate the current trinket bonus , because once you put it you do not change out of those trinkets . You can not , because you lose 30% hp . I have not changes the trinkets I have sine the expansion began and the only change they will see until the end is upgrade in item lvl .
3: It separates the game where it should unite it . Jumping from pvp to pve and vice versa should not feel like you are starting a fresh char . In my opinion the current iteration of gearing is much better than anything we have had before , but it needs to expand to all pieces , not step back to WoD or other gearing practices with PVP only stats .

Tell me why is not OK to build a glass cannot with 0 versatility , but with stacked mastery/crit . With pvp gear where you are funneled into versatility you cannot do that .

Your class is undertuned ? Instead of fixing it yourself , by stacking the correct stats and changing trinkets to give it some damage (while losing survivability), you cannot . You are stuck with versatility template . All you have to do is sit in the forum and whine that X class is strong nerf it and Y is too weak buff it .

Long story short .
PVP specific gear is bad .
Templating things is bad .
PVP targeted set bonuses are bad .
PVP item lvls are good .
General set bonuses , which are not mandatory are good .

In the blind pursuit of balance , PvP was ruined for 90% of the player base who used to enjoy it (take that from vanilla to now) . All you do is create templates on top of templates . 3v3 is the bracket . You cannot use this ability . You cannot use that item. You can only do this but not that . What is this bulls**t. Do you guys enjoy playing Tetris or what .

PvP should be chaotic and unpredictable . That’s what is the difference between scripted PVE and PVP . Seeing what the other guy will do . Pulling some random trick out of his a*s . In the current pvp 9 out 10 times you can guess what the class in front of you will do , just by looking at entrance screen . If that is not scripted I do not know what is .
Warrior > charge > stormbrolt /spear > avatar > Bladestorm

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All i read is me best range specc me cry about warr me bad.

Just go to pve and to pve forums problem solved

15

Farming PvP gear is the easiest since WoD. I don’t see the problem here. Also keep in mind this was the standard for the first WoW expansion ever created. Current PvP system is a downgrade compared to what we had years ago. If sets are nerfed so much in PvP anyway that most specs will play without them I don’t see the problem with introducing PvP set that you can buy for conquest points anyway. It would be literally the same thing as Season 2 of DF just some pieces would have set bonuses on it. I think you write too much philosophy to it while it’s very simple. If devs create a set that PvP players are not going to pick anyway I don’t see the problem why they cannot introduce PvP one. Argument of “but I’ll need 2nd set of gear” is nonsense because for years if you treat PvP serious you need one anyway. If you are a casual PvP player you shouldn’t be bothered anyway as nothing changes.

1 Like
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I really don’t get this. If they don’t want to dedicate that minimum time to create pvp bonuses, why don’t they just remove set bonuses from pvp. It’s obvious that they were made exclusively for pve without a single thought about pvp and at least half of them will be completely useless in pvp.

For example for the dh it buffs beam dmg, beam that we cancel in 80% of cases, especially in the arena :joy:

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Nah doesn’t sound good

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