Shadow (not Void) and Light, how do they mix nowadays?

Aside from the obvious example that are Discipline Priests, I’d like to state I am talking about the internal wielding of each rather than external like Priests do, which is also why (presumably), they aren’t nearly as affected by shadow.

We know that Death Knights can wield like (Sir Zeliek being so extensively devout to the light that he retains some of his will under the Lich King’s tight grasp as a horseman aswell as his ability to call on the light)

Aswell as Forsaken for the same reason (Though they do appear to hurt themselves in the process.)

For example, let’s take a living normal being with no unique effects of their own. A human. Instead of infusing him entirely with light, let’s take a seed of light and a seed of shadow. How do we think it’ll react? Will the seeds still be so potent as to war with each other and kill the user? Will they be stagnant and unable to even do a single thing? That’s what I’d like to know.

I’m working on a bit of a concept and find that having outside perspective can help on settling such matters ontop of personal research. Let’s do some brainstorming shall we?

Just want to nip in quick:

Sir Zeliek is the big exception to the rule of death knights and the Light. He is a one-off example, an exception to the norm and should not be considered as a full example of Death Knights being able to use the Light.

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Ah yeah, good shout. I did believe him to be an exception but didn’t quite think of adding that into my point :dracthyr_nod:

Arguably depends on what you mean by a “seed” of either cosmological force.

To me, a seed implies something dormant that hasn’t come into fruition, only containing the potential to be realized under the right set of circumstances. In which case it wouldn’t be a stretch for the person to carry around both of such sparks and never experience any effects at all… which, let’s be honest, might make it a pointless exercise from an RP point of view.

I think the simplest answer to your question, is another question. What is it that you want for it to do for your character?

Sounds like a disc priest tbh.

Shadow that isn’t void? Isn’t it all void?

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Just to explain a bit.

Shadow isnt void technically speaking. Void is the cosmic force, Shadow is the echo of the Void that naturally occurs on Azeroth and which most of the time is actually used.
Same as the Light is a cosmic force, with holy magic being the echo of it on Azeroth. So no, priests and paladins dont wield the Light as cosmic force. They wield holy magic if we want to be correct.

Light and Void are direct opposites, they react violently if being met directly without both sides being strictly guided (What only exceptional “discipline priests” can do).

There is also a mixture of Light and Void called Twilight. That magic is directly tied to the Old Gods however and might stem from the old gods being void-beings while also being worshipped as gods from their followers, from that coming the light- and void-aspects of that perculiar magic.
With that said:

He will blow up as both shadow and holy magic will directly try to interact with one another without further tempering.
Your human in that example would be exceptionally unstable, especially due to his lack of experience in either holy and shadow. Both magics will seek to influence him in one way or another. A short-lived and explosive case of insanity ensues in worst case.

There are the examples of discipline priests, but there is also a reason why they are called discpline priests. You need exceptional willpower to go for both shadow and holy and have to have perfect balance with them, especially when you want to weave both holy and shadow at the same time. Its as, if not even more, volatile than the arcane is described as. While Arcane is just like a tool and doesnt have a mind of its own, shadow and holy are more closer to living and try to warp you to their side when you just use it. Not to say that both holy and shadow are living, more that they actively influence your mind and heart and warp them a bit when you tap into them. Something which the arcane doesnt do typically.

Thing is, OP, I can see where you might want your character to go:
Them discovering their “natural” aptitude of both shadow and holy magic and learning to utilize both.

I dont know though why you would give your character a start that sounds to me at least like a russian roulette with 6 bullets when you could have your human to be normal and have them join the two obvious recognized orders to study: Church of the Holy Light and Cult of Forgotten Shadows.
There is (or was, I dont know) the Conclave which enables both the study of the holy and the shadow arts.

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Sir Zeliek is as much an exception as any other undead Light wielder - that being, they’re rare, but not unique. There’s nothing in the lore that indicates being a Death Knight does anything to prevent using the Light more than any other undead.

Notably Sally Whitemane also still seems to retain use of the Light as a Death Knight. https://www.wowhead.com/champion=839/high-inquisitor-whitemane with her Consecration ability.

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I would go by how chron 1 describes the forces interacting in the genesis phase of the universe, which is violently in the places they both tried to occupy (on the edge of the dark pockets that popped up in the light universe).

If you had to think of an analogy for it, think of how in real life (assuming there is only one lightsource) a shadow and light cannot share the same surface. In wow, that doesn’t stop the forces from trying with all of its consequences.

Holy magic/shadow I just see as representatives of the forces they’re tied too, sharing in its traits and therefor would react to eachother the same way light/void does kind of like they’re fractals of those forces (shadowlands lore jumpscare)

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Jesus. Warn us next time!

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The Netherlight Temple and Netherlight crucible show that through very careful balance, the two can come to coexist and coalesce.

But, it’s rare, dangerous… And most lack the talent, know-how or sense to make use of it. Oftentimes practitioners of either art find greater success in keeping the two separate.

While I know the dose makes the poison, I think the idea of separating “shadow” and “Void” as well as “holy” and “Light” to be a bit moot in the lore’s current climate and are mostly a vestige of when things were different :tm:

I had a whole conversation splitting hairs about the differences between “Fel” (Chaos evil demon magic) and “Chaos” (Chaos evil demon cosmic force)

They’re called disc priests because you need exceptional self discipline not to break the keyboard in rage when playing one.

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Calia Menethil enters

That used to be the case. Now, ever since the Chronicles, it appears that Shadow is the force that encompasses several aspects, Void being one of them (the main one).

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/1200669.jpg

For what it’s worth though, I preferred Shadow being the by-product instead, it felt like it made more sense.
But if I’m wrong, feel free to correct me!

It’s worthwhile remembering that while initially teased as a lore bible, Chronicles - and later “Grimoire of the Shadowlands and Beyond” - are written from an in-universe perspective. Chronicles being that of the Titans and their creations, Grimoire being that of the Brokers.

This doesn’t mean their contents can’t be true, and Chronicles and Grimoire are more or less in agreement on what the Shadow/Void is. It remains biased though, and thus inherently flawed in its reliability as a fact-sheet for OOC discourse on the lore.

(And as someone who bought into Chronicles being encyclopedic when buying it, this bothers me relentlessly.)

Thats because Blizzard doesnt want to commit to concepts and their limitations. They rather prefer things to be vague and subjective so they can always write up new stuff as soft retcon because “we didnt have full context” and “all previous stuff just someone’s PoV”.

Which inherently makes for bad storytelling and bad worldbuilding as seen with the last three expansions and many storylines that came before. Because there is no reliability in in-universe facts, there is no truth in-universe. What can you even trust in when the entirety of the universe is subjective?

Maybe the Earthen actually arent titan constructs, maybe Azeroth made them herself and the Titans eventually “corrupted” them in the Forge of Will? Maybe the Mogu didnt enslave the Pandaren but it was actually the other way around and the Pandaren painted themselves as victims to be more likeable to new emerging empires and the changing times? Maybe everything, in the primordial universe, used to be demonic but eventually strayed from the chaos to form something slightly less chaotic, resulting in life, void, light etc? We dont know, can all be possible, we only have “someone’s PoV” that tells us how it could be at the current moment.

That whole thing is the biggest and most destructive mistake Blizzard has ever done with Warcrafts lore and worldbuilding, nothing else comes even close to that.
Though that topic right now is a bit off-topic to the question asked by op.

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Though the entirety of Gardenfarah’s answer above covers me, it’s also worth adding that it’s the latest statement on the matter, which has also been since how Blizzard seems to have portrayed the matter since.

I’m well aware of Blizzard’s statement of the Chronicles being subjective, but given how we’ll always lack an objective truth, until future retcons, it’s the best thing we have so to navigate the current lore.

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