Shadow Priest P2, much needed changes

Hi,

Shadow priest is underperforming in P1, thats a reality. In P2, however, we get access to a 50% damage boost in shadow spells, but I wonder if that’s enough to catch up to the other DPSS that will too have some power spikes.

Shadow priest will also suffer in Gnomeregan due to the fact that almost every mob will be mechanical, and void plague (the most damaging spell in our kit) will be unusable, since mechanicals are inmune to diseases.

Now, the chest rune that would act as second choice, is twisted faith, which increases the damage of mind flay and mind blast by 50% on targets with Shadow word: pain. With that in mind, I wonder how the math will act in that regard; if we get a +25% shadow damage from talents (voidform and others), we will get a +50% dmg after that shadow damage increase, and also, that will be even increased from shadow weaving at 5 stacks, which will also increase the damage done to that target by an extra 25%; with DMF +10% damage buff, that will increase even more, in the same way that warriors do scale damage I’d say.

This could seem a huge damage boost at first glance, and it is, but Mind Blast is a high threat generation ability, and relaying on big crits from it can be a miserable gameplay for the spec. So let’s discuss about what abilities or things should SP have in their kit for P2 to compete with others:

SPs need a spammable way to do relevant DPS. Mind flay is good, and it scales with every talent point, and the said chest rune; but I fear that its damage would be not impactful in comparation with other classes’ filler spells.

We will need to compete with DPSS out there that will be doing 500+ DPS (probably 800+ DPS), so adding more dots to the rotation, would fix the “filler” ability problem for SPs, by making the rotation more "dot-uptime"ish, rather than a 2 button spam with 1 ability to mantain.

As for single target, we should be okay by adding a Devouring plague in a magic version; and probably vampiric touch.

As for AoE; we need more interactions from runes. In order to make Twisted faith chest rune more mandatory, it would be awesome to make it increase our damage from mind sear to other targets as long as our main target has shadow word pain, and it should also scale from our damage in that main target; that would alow us to avoid taking shared pain over homunculi, since our AoE damage would be okay by just having to setup the main target. It would be nice to add main target damage to mind sear too, making it less viable than mindflay in single target (and also less mana efficient), but rewarding to cast on 3+ target scenarios.

Some runes that could be useful are Shadowcrash, which would do AoE damage in a pointed area, and also apply Shadow word: pain to every mob.

The rotation could get more spicy if we could have a way to reset our Mind Blast CD and make it instant with no mana cost, let’s say, a 5% per shadow word: pain damage tick, with an internal CD of 5s or so.

An ability that could be nice, is Mind Spike, acting as a filler for our rotation, and also increasing Mind Blast damage after every cast (from 33% to 100% on 3 casts).

Finaly, the game changer would be a mymic ability version of Void form, a CD that would put us in steroids regarding spellcrit or spellpower (since haste is not a thing in Classic).

As for mana, it would be nice for Shadow priests to have a way to proc Spirit tap by doing their rotation; let’s say, per every mind blast crit, you get a full Spirit tap buff; that would make us paired with other caster DPSs in the case that our damage numbers aren’t good enough.

Well, those are some ideas that I hope to see in P2, but honestly, since there are too many; I expect Blizzard adding them as we get in P3 or P4; but again, I’d like to remark that SPs need huge boosts to their numbers/gameplay if Blizzard really wants every class to be viable in SoD, another phase with a meme SP version, would be sad xd.

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I wrote this in my rune suggestions thread for shadow priests concerning mana (which I reposted in another thread you were writing in I think) and AoE.

New rune - Shadow mana regen

“Every time you deal shadow damage you have a 4% chance of activating Spirit Tap for 5 seconds.”

I mean all damage, every dot tick, every tick of Mind Flay, shadow wands and all hits on all targets with Mind Sear. This rune would be available to holy and discipline as well but they’ll generally only have SW:P or if they start wanding. Low chance overall but still a chance. Could be a fun hybrid shadow off healer build in there though!

Or you could lock it to shadowform to reward going deep into shadow but then you’d have to wait until lvl 40 to get the mana regen which is a bummer…

Redesigned rune - Twisted Faith

Let it benefit Mind Sear as well. And allow it to be cast on a friendly target.
Could be a pretty cool three rune combo for AoE (Twisted Faith, Mind Sear and Shared Pain) and with the mana regen rune you’d probably activate Spirit Tap a lot on AoE mitigating Mind Sears high mana cost somewhat.

Another option could be to let Mind Sear spread SWP (adding a bit of a ramp-up while it spreads to cover all enemies for 50% extra from Twisted Faith). Then Shared Pain would be more of a cleave rune and not a prerequisite for making Mind Sear work.

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Indeed, I loved your spirit tap idea, I think that it’d give some life to SP.

About twisted faith, it’s a rune that has alot of potential, It should do something like: Increases all your direct shadow damage to the targets affected by your shadow word pain by 50%; and your periodic shadow damage by 25% imo.

If we want an AoE rotation with good damage and no 3000iq strats, we should have a way to ramp up our damage from that twisted faith rune for AoE, thats why I think that Mind Sear should scale through the main target, and snapshot that dmg to every mob that is around it.

In that Mind sear regard, it would be funny to have the alternative to use it on friendly targets, but it would cause some… babyrages in PvP; I’d go for the added main target damage, with a 50% of a mind flay damage per tick on every target; that way, it would begin to outscale it in DPS when you get 3+ mobs, but still being way more expensive to cast than mind flay.

What would be BIS is a way to pread shadow word pain to N targets, and deal a 20% of your mind blast damage extra to every mob with Shadow word pain active, but that’s too much to ask.

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You could also do a lower damage Mind Sear that is instant and not channeled but buffs all other shadow damage during its duration. So you coat everything in swp, cast mind sear buffing the swp and then start blasting buffed mind blasts n priority targets.
Not kings of AoE but “AoE with priority targets” would be the shadow priest’s thing.

There are so many option and ideas! That’s why I love discussing runes and ways to improve or fix classes!
Just fricken love it :blush:

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Tbh i think the major crux of spriest is mana, i dont think atleast in p2 its dmg would be that bad if it could afford to cast as much as other casters.

Although its a bummer if it required shadowform, due to demanding 40, i think its gonna have to be, as this would make healing priests absolutely insane

Problem their gonna face, is trying to do this without making shadow absolutely insane in pvp. It is easily the best 1v1 class in the game and becomes meta in pvp. Thats not a reason to hold it back.

But be interesting what they do concerning shadow. As its pve state is unjustifiably bad.

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If you added dispersion giving large portions of mana back, but make it only useable in shadow form to avoid healer mana balance issues. As a rune. Also make shadow word death do 50%+ less dmg to the priest.

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Hey.

This is a very good and needed thread. I would also have loved if there would also been a few words on their mana regen within the title itself. Ever since Vanilla times if we’re talking from that verison of the game and also Classic, this has been a very known issue.

I mean honestly It’s quite amazing how after 19+ years this game has been out there and even in SoD with adding some (even late) Retail abilities, they still did not adress SP’s main issue: Mana regen. That SW: Death dmg buff just made em E-tier from F-tier.

Give Shadow Priests a rune/ability for Fiend Pet, VT (even tho that basicly just game others mana, hence "mana battery in TBC but still), something, anything.
The only counter I’ve heared some few people have said was “if they had that mana regan in lvl 25 bracket, would been brokenly OP”. Which I seriously doubt.

But for phase 2 and if there’s any devs reading this, give SPs some mana regen atleast and no I don’t count that mana oil as you can only use it in specific situations or the shamans totems (pala’s wisdom blessing) or from their S-rage.

That is my honest opinion on this matter and :+1: to OP.
EDIT: If they do give them what SP’s need, I will consider maining that insted of mage for SoD.

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The devs mentioned that not every spec would be golden in every phase. I can accept that. Shadow priests (and shamans) might be those specs in phase 1. That is fine.
I would however like to hear that from the devs. Just a “Guys, spec X and Y will come alive in the next phase” would be all I needed.
Not knowing wether they have a plan or not would go a long way.

My theory is they’re keeping shadow damage low to make sure there are still healers in the game.
With most shamans, druids and palas going dps or tank, priests are the only class that still “have” to go healer spec.

I dont think thats the case.

It looks like that they “wont” buff it to not end up with a balancing nightmare for the specc in pvp and pve.

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Small update:

Now they will add Mind spike as we predicted lol.

Casted ability that deals SHADOWFROST damage, and stacks a 30%(not 33% lol) crit chance on mindblast buff till +90% proc at 3 stacks (still “not” guaranteed).

Now, I wonder how the rotation will be; will we even use Mind flay?

Mind blast has 8s cd; with 5 talents, 8s -2.5s = 5.5s.

Mind Flay has 3s full channeling duration and at lvl 40, it does 186 dmg over 3s before modifiers.

Given that twisted faith increases its damage by 50%; it would be sad to not use it; but I wonder how the rotation would be in that case.

Ideally, one would expect the rotation be like that:

Opener […], Mind Blast > Mind Spike(1) > Mind Spike(2) > Mind Spike(3) > Mind Flay > Mind Blast; repeat.

However, if Mind Blast CD is 5.5s and Mind Flay cast time is 3s; that leave us with only 2.5s to build up our Mind Spikes. To fit, Mind Spike should have a flat 0.833s cast, which is not going to happen.

Now, expecting Mind Spike to have a 2s cast; We would have a 6s rotation with 3 Spikes into Mind Blast, so essentially, we should go 4/5 in that Mind Blast talent to not lose value from it; moving that point into threat reduction probably, in order to have a 6s CD Mind Blast.

The rotation would be:

Opener […], Mind Blast > Mind Spike(1) > Mind Spike(2) > Mind Spike(3) > Mind Blast; repeat; using probably Shadow word: Death if we require to move.

That leads to another conclusion: Should we ever use Mind Flay? Given that it does only shadow damage, we don’t get value from curses that increases frost damage as Mind Spike do, in the other hand, it gets the benefit from twisted faith, but still, it will be less efficient, and of course, it will not increase our overal damage from big crits on Mind Blast.

So far, I’d say that Mind Spike is gonna replace entirely Mind Flay, so we could save that talent point to have less threat generation, or more range; that being said, the fact of not having to use mind flay in our rotation even if we have a rune that bolster that ability, is kind of “poor” design. If Mind Spike replaces Mind Flay, that would be poor too because healers would not have it, which would be “poor” too; so I expect Blizzard to include Mind Spike damge in the chest rune Twisted Faith, in order to make some sense… if that makes sense.

Regarding mana, since Mind Spike is a rune, I don’t expect it to be a mana demanding ability, so I think that we will be okay; but it’s too early to speak.

I would also like to add that with this SP class design, I see no benefit of using Shadow word: pain; because it can be a waste of mana, and it doesen’t fit in our rotation unless we have to move and Shadow word: death is on CD; so it is very bad that we have to mantain its uptime only to activate our Twisted Faith rune; in progress fights where mana is an issue, I expect some priests using a R1 SW:P just to get the benefit with no mana cost at all.

About Dots, it seems to me that the Mind Spike build is going to make Void Plague irrelevant; however, with all the damage modifiers that we will have in shadow damage, Void Plague by itself can be huge; and also an alternative for Hpriests damage. Meh, we’ll have to wait and see how it works out in two weeks.

Take care!

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Shadow word pain will be horrible yes as i believe its last rank is 34 so again its sub par this phase. If we do have mana issues which with dispersion and shadow fiend we might be alright than downranking as an option. Really mind blast should just refresh the dot. Its a horrible spell to cast for the gcd every 18./ 24

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