Shadowlands class changes feel like bandaids on a dire wound

I have been going through changes on many specs, convenant abilities, watching videos of gameplay, reading feedback forums for community reaction and so far it seems that the devs are making SOME progress and I am glad they do.

However, I have a feeling that the core of most specs is still in a bad, post Legion, gimped state. We all have 4 buttons build/spend rotations with a cooldown and a random proc. There is no nuance to most specs. Fury is still this fast paced 3 button spec like it was at the start of BfA and Retributio is still a slug with holy combo points. While I can see some appeal in these, others specs are absolutely broken like Shadow Priest being unplayable, Fire gamepaly being dependant on niche items and azerite traits which are gone in SL. Demonology warlock still doesn’t have a real interrupt despite being the only spec really suited for M+. You can make this list go on and on.

Meanwhile we are getting these useless abilities that don’t fit at all into rotations or gameplay. I get it, Eyes of the Beasts are cool to roleplay in front of Stormwind Cathedral with your pet. Take a look at warlock curses and auras. They are so underwhelming and yet it adds so much unnecessary hassle. Curse of Doom and Retribution Auras are both ridiculous examples. The first one is 60 seconds debuff after which dmg is dealt and some minor chance to summon a dumon. You will never see it, most of the times you won’t use it since things either die too fast or you will be assigned some curse that reduces/buffs dmg. Ret aura makes you swamp aura using GCD to benefit off ally death instead of trying to save him with a blessing or heal. As a paladin, really? Let’s go over totems, most of them are just upkeep buffs that provide no depth to gameplay and with already heavy GCD they are very disruptive and annoying burden just like they were in the days of classic. This feels like a fan service nostalgia trip, like the one they pulled out with new Star Wars movies.

And this goes back to whole GCD/prunning systems that we have been getting since Legion and yet we mostly dislike it. I have a theory why this all happens so put your tinfoil hats on. I think the reason why we have really bad and simple core specs is because of rental power AND scaling.

It’s harder to make specs complex like in MoP, balance them every patch or expansion. It’s harder to make progression systems while we have so many abilities and passives and tier sets etc. so we have to remove them and bring new ones. This is why they have this “core”, to fill the blanks. The problem is, they are not doing a good job at feeling those blanks and they have presented it in BfA for most specs and it seems this problem will still exist in SL because of convenants being choices.

The second thing, scaling. How do you appeal to casual and hardcore player with a class? It’s very hard. Some people will just yell that their class is too complex, they don’t perform good, it’s too much tracking all these debuffs, buffs, dots, synergies. But then hardcore players would mostly love complex as they can distinguish themselves and do better than others. What do you do then? Make class as easy as possible while maintaing some illusion of diversity. Then, scale content. It’s easy to scale content, we have 4 raid levels, we have M+ which just scales every key.

They have put emphasis on external systems scalling instead of the player. At the end of the day most specs just aren’t fun and aren’t cool to play. It’s a 2020 MMORPG, lately leaning more into ARPG and I would expect more cool stuff that I can do with my class both in terms of visuals and gameplay. And then, even with so much homogenization of specs, they still can’t get the utility and dmg balance right. But, that is a topic for another discussion.

Anyways, tell me what do you think, do you think this is enough job done, should they do more, are you for a complete overhaul, should classes be more complex and diverse. Whatever you think please just don’t use “it’s only an alpha/beta” argument, it’s the worst to the game.

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I don’t mind them undoing some of the mess that Legion made with the classes, but returning random abilities like Raise Dead just for the sake of it is pretty stupid. More buttons to press is good only if they are meaningful and interact with other abilities or the rest of the class toolkit. Having extra buttons to push for the sake of it is pointless.

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SL class changes are mostly completely garbage done by people that clearly don’t play the game.

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I like the SL class changes. Nothing they can come up with atm can be worse than what we have now.

And this is why I dont play retail. All specs are the same… so boring. #bringbackclass/specuniqueness

So you don’t play retail but judge about how the classes feel.

So glad to have people like you on the dev team!

Okay its big brain time.

I leveled several classed to 120. All felt the same. Boring = I quit.

Youre not a special snowflake…

There is an ignore function on the forums now, that belf is a notorious troller.

Anyway ye, devs are timid about class changes, we are stuck in this soup for a long time now I wouldn’t have high hopes for game changing class shake-ups anytime soon.

Can’t really judge the classes until you have proper stats chief.

Since when?

Brian Holeinka the un-pruner already said in Blizzcon that there wont be big changes to classes because they dont want to upset Little Timmy and 95% off you retarded casual spergs with complex and depth gameplay.

Yes they return some abilities here and there, but the core rotations and mindless spam continues. Shadowlands is BFA 2.0 with some extra sauce.

If 10.0 doesn change Classes further WoW is done. Game has been trash since WoD.

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Wow was dead before its release.

No it died when WoD pre-patch hit followed by deathblow, which was that Selfiecam patch.

Yeah i can clearly tell.

Below 120 all content is so trivial that you can get away with pressing one button on most specs. Things die instantly. The game actually starts at 120

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I mean your class / spec doesnt change to a new one just because you are now 120 and are doing mythic + etc.

Every single class/spec has a big button for increased dps for X seconds and a defensive CD for taking less dmg for X seconds and then they all have a random proc every X seconds.

Its just so boring.

But in my opinion Shadowlands looks very promising. Just wish they would get rid of covenant abilities…

In SP’s case, a sadistic kid picking away at their scab.

Couldn’t agree more. It seems to be some strange flaw in the current designers thinking, that they just can’t quite get the grasp of spell interaction. Ret pala currently has some nice spell interaction between judgment and ES. It ends there, and ES is a talent. Before Legion, it felt like the entire kit worked in unison.

Extra spells that are just stand alone extra spells are as useful as their strength, but a spec’s design working fluidly relies on each individual spell flowing and potentially benefiting any other spell you press, it creates meaningful, rewarding gameplay, something that I feel has been lost between the transition phase between WoD class design and Legion >

This is only the perspective of a Ret Pala, though, I know many other classes already had their souls ripped when WoD landed.

I lost all my hope when blizz said that Demonology and Destruction warlocks are in a good spot. Without traits and essences that were purely made as band aid fixes for demo warlock, the specc will be absolute garbage for half the expansion until blizzard comes up with new band aid fixes.

Which is a shame, the content seems interesting but classes will be in a horrible state just like it’s been since Legion.

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I agree, a rework is more needed than just adding spells…

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Seems like an impossible task to me.

In the past expansions they dealt with some spec problems by the root and completely revamped them. Then players complained about their specs being unrecognizable and not the ones they fell in love with.

So in Shadowlands they’ve been up front about not wanting to make huge revamps yet again.
….But of course there are some people who think their class or spec is in dire need of a revamp, so they’re up in arms now about Blizzard not dealing with their many issues.

That seems like an impossible task for Blizzard. I’ll take my own Priest spec Discipline as an example. It used to be a Power Word: Shield spammer. Then Blizzard revamped it into the Atonement raid monster that it is today. Some people really like what Discipline is today, whereas others despise it and are praying for another revamp.

I also think some of the player criticism is completely unwarranted.
Saying all the classes and specs play the same is just wrong. That is just a stupid form of criticism to level and just shows that some people don’t think seriously about what they’re saying. Because of course it’s not the same to be playing a Fury Warrior versus a Demonology Warlock, and pretending it is, that’s idiotic.

And it’s equally stupid to push this notion that everyone’s only using 3 or 4 buttons, because anyone that can count is perfectly capable of counting more abilities than 3 or 4.

And it’s also clear that in their desperation for attention from Blizzard, some people inflate their own class’ or spec’s problems beyond what they actually are.
After it was sort of determined that Shadow Priest was in a really bad spot, then suddenly a lot of people feel a need to point out that their class or spec is in just as bad a state as Shadow Priest – if not worse!
And that’s also dumb and doesn’t focus the feedback properly. It just goes to show that many players are egoistic and just want Blizzard to work on the class or spec they play, to hell with the rest.

I am trying to stay objective, I played couple of classes and you really don’t have to be invested in the game to see who has problems, who is the underdog and who is above everyone else. People are asking for their classes to be buffed because most people only play their one class and they see the game from their perspective. This is the same reason why people are so mad about DH. From most player’s perspective, why the hell would someone not play Havoc? You can effortlessly do everything, you jump around doing cool stuff, turn into a demon. Even if DH has problems of its own in SL, this is the perspective. Of course people will be mad and screaming.

Comparing Demonology Warlock and Fury Warrior may not be the best since melee and ranged are pretty much like subclasses. But if you were to compare every melee to every melee and every ranged to every ranged it would be pretty much the same. Like what is demonology core, spam shadowbolt, spend it on imps and keep dreadstalkers up. Frost Mage, you spam frostbolt hoping for procs. Yea, there is slightly more to it but the core is really simple and similar.

I do think you made a really good point about feedback. Who devs should listen to? If you listen to hardcore players you end up with a game like WildStar that eventually dies. If you listen to casuals we have this situation. People on forums making these nostalgia trips asking for 2h enhancement or some weird curses and DK presences. I can imagine it must be very hard for devs.

I don’t know what the answer is and I do hope some borrowed power will fix current issues. Personally I think they should just move on. If they don’t want to make classes more complex, at least I think we should all be able to do more cool stuff. Things that make you go “wow”. Like DH turning into a demon or DK summoning a Frost Wyrm to breath everything. Give us more tools to interact with the world and other players and express ourselves.

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