Ehh, nevermind this. I can’t have this endless discussion anymore.
Both factions got the short end of the stick this expansion. And so did the non-faction enemies.
‘We only tried to genocide you, why are you fighting back?? Alliance is so evil!’
Yeah sure, a cold war of goblin and gnome teams beating each other up over Azerite justifies a war of total annihilation. Nuance does not exist.
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Genn’s fighting with Sylvanas did not start a full out war, and while disruptive to the while idea of stopping the Legion, it did stop Sylvanas from basically completly taking away the Valajar’s aid. I doubt they would have been kind to us with Eyir enslaved and stolen by her. It was also very clear back then and now that it was for ulteriour evil motives.
Atop of that, those conflicts were inline with the typical skirmishes(while stupid not full on war)
With the goblin workers, there was conflict over Azerite, and even then, the CoA faction was already establishing themselves there to make sure that people weren’t just mining up Azerite by the dousins from the wound.
The war itself did infact Start with the full-scale attack on Teldrassil, which was nothing short of a war crime, both in our perspective as well as Azeroth’s, and which we know now, had been Sylvanas plan all along. We know for a fact she was planning on causing war, for the sake of causing death.
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Sorry now your reaction looks out of place… I just can’t anymore 
Sure it’s a crappy story instead of what could have happened, but the way Blizzard chose to go with BfA was very simplisticly in the end:
Horde goof’ed up and was actually the bad guys this time and mislead by Sylvanas. It’s a bad story, but it’s the story they picked. (Giving the Horde leaders collective amnesia is dumb).
Sort of related (but not pointed at Elenthas or any other specific individuals), has anyone else noticed a very weird sort of exaggerated super-macho attitude about the WoW lore in the community? It’s especially noticeable on MMOchampion.
Basically any character that dares as much as contemplate that maybe massacring one another, especially with mutual enemies storming in constantly, is unwise, becomes instantly labeled a ‘soyboy cuck’ and blamed on Christie Golden.
Sure, war of some kind (note that war against external enemies is also war) is a foundation of the setting, from an OOC point of view. But what is wrong with lore characters having nuance and varying from total war nuts to peace proponents?
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MMOchampion is basically the 4chan of WoW at this point, both in terms of their regard for other humans as well as weirdly certain political take on everything(while claiming that it’s totally not, and if you disagree you are a sjw etc etc).
But yeah, overall there’s been a very weirdly growing zealousy among certain parts of the fanbase in that “ITS ALL OR NOTHING!!!”
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I like the fact that the factions just can’t help themselves. That they’re almost infantile when it comes to keeping focus on a bigger picture for any meaningful amount of time. There are the odd exceptions of course, but generally it’s probably the one thing Sylvanas got right. It’s a cycle of hatred.
Is it stupid? It absolutely is, but I’ve come to just roll with it and enjoy the view for what it is.
The ones taking a torch to Golden need to check themselves though, agreed.
I’m not sure how Nazgrim making an informed decision to stick with a tyrant makes him better than Geya’rah who did it out of ignorance.
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If anything, Nazgrim’s view seemed to have been that the nation/faction & its leader is one and the same and that the faction can’t exist without the current warchief, which is kinda reminiscent to how dictatorships tend to work.
Loyalty to something bad is itself bad.
Changing your mind as circumstances change or you get new information is a logical thing to do.
(It can also be a very hard thing to do. People are stubborn.)
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It’s really kinda weird how it seems rather popular today to believe that changing your mind is weak, and the “true” thing to do is to just double down and buck your feet down regardless of if you are wrong or had incorrect information.
People seem to value the “goal” of “winning” over litterally anything else, even at the expense of their own dignity and people’s/the world’s health & happiness.
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This reminds me of psychology class.
But yes, humans are predisposed towards making up their mind and then sticking with it.
For example, this is why the purpose of forum debates is not to convince your opponent (this will basically never happen). It’s to convince the silent majority, the audience. Which is why I don’t mind dropping out of a debate once it starts going in circles, gets stuck, etc. For the audience you don’t need to repeat yourself.
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I haven’t even touched a shred of psychology, so all that means nothing to me! Ha ha, FOOL!
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It’s a reaction to most characters having the generic “ah… we must break the cycle … for The Azeroth … and for peace !!!” mentality
I promise you with absolute certainty that if most characters loved war / killing / were really unreasonable and unenlightened, it would flip in the other direction
Yeah, unlike the Horde, which was certainly not villainous from day one
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draenei genocide was lawful good
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Horde, villains…? no. that can’t be… we are all honorable bloodhooves and frostwolves…
i don’t get the hate for the path of glory. the orcs needed a road to move their warband and supplies to the dark portal and didn’t have any other easily accessible resource that would suit other than plentiful draenei bones.
seems logical to me
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Reap, recycle & reuse.
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The future of AU Draenor proves that the Path of Glory, in hindsight, was 100% the right thing to do in terms of the interests of the orcish peoples
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