Shadowlands feels weak

Community General Discussion
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It’s the first expansion that I feel nothing for. First expansion I don’t own the collector’s edition since Vanilla.

Lorewise:

  • The theme has been pulled from Blizzard’s brown hoop. While I am all for them trying something new, this has the feel of another “filler expansion” (like WoD).
  • Bringing back old characters that should be dead. The Dragonball Z effect.
  • Sylvanas on another ego trip (we’ve just had a whole expansion revolving around her).
  • Korean RPG, angels vs vampires theme.
  • The Jailer is the most generic villain imaginable, and I say “imagination” loosely. Kids in a playground can think of something better than this.

Gameplay:

  • 4 new zones, smallest of any expansion.
  • No new classes or races.
  • The singular new feature (Covenants) has so many problems and is essentially Order Halls on steroids.
  • Old abilities that should never have been removed, bought back and rebranded as “new content”.

Many people are feeling relieved that BFA is finally coming to an end, it has been painful and we have seen many friends drop out along the way, they really needed to go all out with Shadowlands, pull out all of the stops and make players excited to return.

They simply have not done that.

Instead, they have produced the smallest expansion in WoW’s history, while we have just come from the longest expansion in WoW’s history.

That’s my 2 pence. And if this analysis upsets you, please post here and let me know about it.

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5 including the Maw, pretty sure they’re bigger than legions zones, plus they will probably add more zones like in Legion with Argus and Bfa with mechagon and the water zone thing.
They said they might add allied races later mid expansion, most likely, ‘Kyrian, Night Fae, venthyr and Necrolords’. Been playing the beta theres already more to do than there was in bfa and legion tbh. I’ve been playing on the beta and I love it. I hated bfa and wod, but this feels like a legion ish type of expansion. And I enjoyed legion.
Plus we got torghast coming and a new city and not reused an old city like legion dalaran.

Also don’t be fooled by the SL zones until you played in them, I hated Maldraxus zone thinking it’s just a bigger version of east and western plaguelands which I hated and dreaded questing in it. But after questing in Maldraxus it’s amazing and my fav zone in SL now lol.

And PVP vendors are back!!! :smiley:

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I’d disagree, the Shadowlands isnt something that randomly started existing, nor are the first ones, nor are pantheon, Nor is a Realm of Death or Gods of Death.

they’re not coming back to life.. we’re going TO THE DEAD xD theres a major difference here realistically.

while i dislike slyvanus, it’d be weird if she just dissapeared without any follow up after all she did in BFA in all honesty

Not really.. the convenants arent against one another, there simply different Levels dependent on the life u lived.. which is quite a popular thing when talking about death.

I’d once again Actually disagree, he Realistically is not.. and not exactly the next boss anyone really could have massively anticipated before the spoilers rolled out.

No one was screeching “jailer” when they first announced us going into the Shadowlands.. so clearly wasnt that “generic”.

U’ve repeated this a thousand times, and Imma Say it again its technically 5 given the Maw is a Zone. and also those lands are quite large and Quite deep in what they offer.

Difference is Maw isnt quite as hype as Suramar was realistically. which tbh yeah it looks rather bad.

again another thing ur repeating.. and once again we’ll tell you

THIS IS A GOOD THING.

like why in gods name release another class when they have stated they’re struggling to balance 36 speccs?

Another thing u’ve been repeating.

Convenants are nothing like order halls, these arent class specific nor do they fit any class themes.

Convenants are closer to Scyer v Aldor in theme and consequences. ontop of this they are far deeper and tied to the physical expansion then Class halls were.

They were never stated to be new content they were stated to be Unpruned abilities.

i feel like you just Repeat the same thread every week to see what sorta replies you get. welcome to MMORPGS.. its what Expansions are realistically built on.. more of the same with a different theme.

tbh.. this has been every expansion.. every expansion people pour in for the first 4 months and then leave afterwards, its really not all that different.. while i agree BFA Failed in several places throughout. its not odd behaviour.

In all honesty.. they’ve taken every risk in the books concerning this expansion, and many would consider this a Larger bite then both BFA ANd Legion in what blizzard are attempting to do in SL

  • 5 Brand new Systems on Launch
  • Unique Abilities for every class dependent on the convenant u choose
  • 4x the normal Aesthetic Additions as litterally everything has 4 different apperances based on the convenant u chose.
  • New Racial Customization.
  • Several Class Reworks
  • Torghast

I’d argue this expansion has had Far more new systems introduced to it on launch then any prior Expansion realistically given its goals and actual fresh content introduced to the game realistically.

This expansion has Hands down the Most Transmogs out of every expansion in the game, its also launching the most systems a WoW expansion has ever had, while introducing a Rogue-lite Styled content which hasnt existed in the game prior to this point and bringing back prolly one of the most complex systems to balance around yet.

While sure theres controversery among weather these systems are good or bad i dont think u can really downplay the goal with what they’re doing with the expansion. and i feel like u simply ignore almost the entire expansion just to make it look small realistically.

4x More Aesthetical items.
5x Systems
Torghast Rogue-Lite styled.
4 Main lands + 1 end level land which matchs Legion
Several class Reworks.

Ur post doesnt upset me.. it simply ignores 3/4s of the content coming to fit a narrative that you’ve repeatively stated on every post and thread u’ve humanly been able to.

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Yeaaaay! Systems! Hurray for the systems! I’m so excited for the…new…systems…

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Hey just because you feel empty inside, you will not bring me down, NOPE.

I am so hyped for SL, I love the whole aesthetic, being saying forever now. I love the idea of the jailer, the caretaker of the shadows which house the most hauntingly evil souls, I love the lore, monsters, death, evil, wickedness, the veil between life and death colliding, I love it all! I feel sorry you, I wish you could feel the excitement I am feeling.

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Subjective. New lore can be created to continue WoW’s story.

Well technically they are dead. If we enter the “land of the death” then it was obvious that we would meet some of WoW’s iconic characters…which we uhm…sent there anyway. :smiley:

And that’s bad how exactly? MoP was also heavily based on the “Eastern Culture” yet MoP tends to get high praises as well. I personally don’t care if Blizzard borrows inspiration from Medieval Europe culture or Native Americans…as long as they do it right.

Quality over quantity. Having an expansion with 999 new zones does NOT automatically make it a “reward winning one”.

We have enough issues already with balancing or at least trying to balance the classes somewhat. And you want to throw in another “DH” in the pot for good measure?

Remains to be seen. I would personally rather welcome no new classes,specs what ever. But Blizzard takes time and improves the quality and gameplay on current features.
Than add "new " broken stuff atop of already broken stuff.

The garbage pile will only stink more if you just throw more “new” trash on it instead of trying to fix something.

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as i stated this isnt always percieved to be a good thing. but i think its outright wrong to simply shout out “they’re introducing nothing”.

Im not saying the content is great, im not giving a opinon on the content itself.. im just saying hes Intentionally ignoring ALOT Of what shadowlands is bringing to push a Narrative realistically.

things such as

  • the convenants
  • Torghast
  • 4x More aesthetics
  • ALOT Mroe mounts introduced comparitively to other launchs
    Raid Weapons all have 4 Models depending on ur Covenant
  • 12 x 4 new Abilities introduced into convenats + 4 New Signiture abilities
  • 4 Lands + 1 End game land Introduction which is even to legion.
  • Several major class overhauls
  • Levelling overhaul
  • new Race customizations
  • New Design of Emissary Quests / World Quests to be deeper to the Lore of the game
  • New Alternative Levelling methods for Alts
  • build your Own Legendary Systems
  • Optional Convenant Fitted Weekly Events
  • New Weekly Vault instead of the weekly chest
  • New M+ Affixs + Changes to old ones
  • PvP Scaling removal
  • Ability unpruning
  • Ability Redesigns

these are all Shadowland Features and to try downplay that to 4 new things which he largely discredits is Simply so Factually incorrect and outright lying realistically.

SL has largely Changed the Major complaints surrounding BFA Currently

  • Too Much RNG
  • Too much Proc based Damage
  • Complicated Gearing
  • Too much Loot in the game
  • Jumps in ilevel between tiers is too large
  • Infinite Grinds
  • Enforced Content tied to said Grinds.

these are all things shadowlands has Changed massively in how they work realistically.. and Yes there are changes that Players do screech about.. and consider to be Negative changes

but they’re still features brought to us through SL and they’re Still SL content at the end of the day.

Disagreeing with the content, and Just flat out ignoring the contents existance are very different.

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That’s a bad thing.
Only overgeared PvE players who enjoy smashing undergeared PvP players are happy about this.

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And thats bad how exactly? Even if I am not a pvp player.
A fully conquest/mythic geared character should do at least noticeable damage against a naked fresh lvl 120…lvl 60?

With the previous scaling. It went to such extremes that equipping lower lvl geared stuff and removing sockets actually made you more powerful :rofl:

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I’m really excited to learn more about the Jailer’s motivations, Sylvanas’ are one thing, but the Jailers still completely elude us.
It’s clear he isn’t a Sargeras “I wanna destroy the universe” nor is he a Lich King “I want to control the entire world” style villain.
I’m hoping he’s surprisingly sympathetic, even if we still gotta kill him.

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as i said i dont agree with all the changes.

however alot of the playerbase was Really pushing for its removal aswell as Rextroy himself whos as far as i know a PvP Player mainly. even the arena forums of players who Dedicate to PvP and Complain about PvEs requirement were jumping for this realistically.

so While yeah some do hate it others seem to want it and it wasnt only Overgeared PvE players trying to grab it tbh

there are things i disagree with

  • Convenants having Power Attached to them so restrictively
  • Target capping Class AoE
  • I dont like the new storming Affix
  • the maw looks bland
  • The alternative Levelling path for SL Looks weird and overall not worthwhile
  • I dont entirely think all classes got enough unpruning.
  • I dont think the new WQs / Callings look that interesting either

but the OP isnt critizing the Content given, they’re outright dismissing it which is different. espically when this is a copy and paste From prior posts of the OP himself.

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No. The gear gap is massive and there’s no way to catch up. It’s especially terrible because the best gear comes from PvE, meaning: if you only do PvP, you get destroyed by people who don’t do as much PvP as you do.
Skill should allow you to destroy your PvP opponents - not gear, not raw numbers.

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i’d argue this is mainly a BFA Prepatch problem and Not a actual Shadowlands issue.

as Obviously u wont be catching up upon SL Launch due to the fact we all take a reset there.

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Yes of course, but that’s only true for the start of Shadowlands.
New players and alts will suffer in the long run, as they have in BFA.

A simple truth is: if you’re a PvP player who only wants to play PvP, you can’t. You must grind for superior PvE gear first, and that’s just awful.

PvE gear should be the best. In PvE. Only in PvE.

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hmm this is where im devided, while on one hand i agree with you that its annoying that Winning can come simply down just to gearing higher then you.

the other half of me says this is a MMORPG… where Kinda that is what kinda dictates you more then anything.. you can say this about current PvE Content.

a 135 ilevel player will Find it very easy to outdps a 100 ilevel player. purely based off their raw numbers not because they perform the rotation any better.

i’d say this is likely mainly because the game itself is PvE Driven, and their changes have realistically emphasised that.. so what they’ve done is allow PvE to bleed into PvP to Increase the quantity of players that simply do both.

imho the minimum needs to be to allow PvP players to gear through a Progressive system in PvP to gear to the same level as a PvE Player. and finish that up with Disabling PvE Trinkets.

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You do realize that this game has a “character progression” system included as well…right? Which has been since…uhm… Vanilla? WoW is not a shooter or anything. Where your performance solely depends on your aim and stuff.

The PvE vs PvP gear is different debate. But even IF Blizz manages to fix that issue. A fully elite arena geared dude should be able to roll over a naked lvl 60…otherwise…what’s the point of gear anyway?

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Gear is for PvE enthusiasts. Gear should matter - in PvE.

PvP players have different expectations. What we want is a fair environment where only the way we play, the way we master our class matters in an encounter.

With the current design, an ilvl 135 player with 1750 rating can completely destroy a multi-rank 1 Gladiator playing on his alt. This is just wrong. This is not fun.
Well, it is fun…for the overgeared PvE player.

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So should it in PvP to an extent.

A lot of PvP players seem to agree(based on what I see on the forums) that the old system with resilience/pvp stat was the best route. Yet I will presume you also oppose this idea cause a blue honor gear guy has an unfair advantage against a conquest geared guy…right?

Honestly. I am not really sure what do you expect from a MMORPG game where we got meles, ranged,casters,healers and etc. The class difference already makes it unfair(some classes being OP against certain other classes and etc).

To meet your “100% fair” critteria. Then we need a skyrim-shooter. Everyone can be everything and everyone does EXACT same numbers. Not sure how are you planning to implant that in WoW…or any MMORPG pretty much.

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This was meant to be replaced with more customisation for core races but it was mostly elves, orcs and humans which got this treatment of having “expanded” customisation.

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I’ll take anything as long as it doesn’t involve being forced to get PvE gear.

My stand is simple:

  • Gear earned in PvE should be the best gear for PvE
  • Gear earned in PvP should be the best gear for PvP

Right now, PvE gear is the best gear for both forms of content.

1 Like