I just watched Venruki reacting to stoopz vid. about shadowlands pvp vendor and how we (the pvp community) might be left in the dust once again… So far the changes for pvp vendor has not improved on our part and we’ll probably still be forced to do mythic raids- n dungeons to have a fair chance in the pvp bracket.
This is concerning to me and a lot of other people who just wanna PVP and don’t care about PVE. The same goes the other way around - PVE players don’t wanna PVP, so why do pvp’ers have to pve…
First I would like to say thank you Blizzard for really connecting with the community during the development of this expansion, there are numerous examples of this and I won’t get into detail.
I would just like to keep this going as I find it extremely important, I have played since vanilla, there were a few expansions where I was more busy in life and played ONLY PvP, and i’ll never forget how fun wod - mop - cata was with the PvP vendors.
I Was able to really feel like it was a competition of skill. With everyone’s gear being equal AND if I then wanted to raid with that character I was basically LFR / normal ready with the pure PvP but never had an advantage in raiding (which is fare)
I just ask to make the same PvP vendors as before! So far the expansion is looking great - and this would really be legendary if we could compete in arena like before.
Either give more options in the vendor (AND with higher ilvl possibility)
Or introduce some system like 2 set 4 set 6 set bonuses that are made for PvP only
OR introduce pvp power again / resilience, (ONLY TO THE PVP VENDOR ITEMS)
Plus don’t make them so strong that anyone with pvp gear can perform better in a raid than someone with PvE gear.
Actually yes, PvP in WoW not so popular i mean competetive and on hight rating playing few tens of the same players for years, years(!). They won’t separate PvP in own category to makes peoples feels not so good - u kill Dragons - then u can show your mastery in WoW little mod called PvP. This is PvE game about PvE. Most of the new players comes here not for PvP and PvP mostly is fun content. It is what it is. Nowdays popular MOBA, Battle royale FPS and others PvP focused games. MMORPG good days gone.
There’s legit only like 3 or 4 things they can do to fix it:
1 - Add a pvp stat - already said they wont do.
2 - Add every stat combination to vendor -I think they also wont do since then pvers will say they have to pvp for the right stats
3 - Add a pvp set bonus to give say damage reduction but you have to put it on having like the full pvp set otherwise you end up with pvp/s4 style players.
4 - Scale all pvp gear above mythic raid ilvl in rated arena. So if raid gear is say 190ilvl, boost pvp gear to 210ilvl so mythic gear.
To be honest, I can’t see them doing any of these but I hope they do.
I think it’s worth pointing out that there haven’t been made any changes to the PvP vendor and what we’re seeing is still the first iteration, i.e. probably just a copy/paste of the old Honor values with the bare minimum design needed to facilitate testing, and a lot of placeholder names and models.
Blizzard have opened up to facilitate PvP testing for the tuning of abilities and spells. The PvP vendor and gearing system however, that still seems to be on the to-do list.
I think there’s some leverage between what’s currently available on the PvP vendor and then having every stat combination available.
The sweet-spot is probably somewhere in-between, where you can get almost BiS from the PvP vendor, but not entirely.
That reflects the PvE situation rather well, where the loot tables also provide a lot of stat combinations, but not all of them.
I think what’s most important is probably to increase the volume of Versatility items on the PvP vendor, since that stat has the highest value in PvP relative to PvE.
This will probably happen in later Seasons in the expansion, since Blizzard have said that they want to reintroduce class tier sets again. So obviously PvP sets will be reintroduced as well.
I’d be happy (I think…unsure) if they added every vers combination to each item. So haste/vers, mastery/vers and crit/vers. I think that covers most specs in pvp.
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking as well. And maybe a few extra options here and there, so there’s some extra customization available.
And then if you really want to push that 95% BiS to 100% BiS, well then you may have to run a Mythic Dungeon or Raid, and that’s okay.
The opposite will probably also be true, that the PvEer can get 95% BiS from Raiding and if he wants 100% BiS, then it requires a trip to the PvP vendor.
If you’re an Arena player and you have to take a detour to farm a Dungeon, then you’re not doing the thing you like the most.
If you’re a Raider and you have to take a detour to farm a Dungeon, then you’re not doing the thing you like the most.
The notion that people who do Raids or Dungeons like both activities equally much is a bit of a stretch.
But the point is merely to say that overlap between activities is a thing, so it wouldn’t work if the PvP vendor had every stat combination on every piece of gear when no other single activity offers that kind of item selection.
“But the point is merely to say that overlap between activities is a thing, so it wouldn’t work if the PvP vendor had every stat combination on every piece of gear when no other single activity offers that kind of item selection.”
ye this is true, it can’t work like that.
Any of the other suggestions would work just fine though.
"1 - Add a pvp stat - already said they wont do.
3 - Add a pvp set bonus to give say damage reduction but you have to put it on having like the full pvp set otherwise you end up with pvp/s4 style players.
4 - Scale all pvp gear above mythic raid ilvl in rated arena. So if raid gear is say 190ilvl, boost pvp gear to 210ilvl so mythic gear.
I don’t think it’s such a binary choice where either the PvP vendor has all item combinations, and if it hasn’t, then it doesn’t work.
There’s plenty of room in-between where the PvP vendor can have a fair share of item combinations and still provide a viable means of gear progression in PvP.
I know Blizzard will do set bonuses. Every new tier always adds something new (Heart of Azeroth, Netherlight Crucible, Corruption effects, etc.), and Ion has already said that they are going to do class sets again for Shadowlands, just not on release. So that will happen, it’s just a question of what patch it comes in.
I don’t think it’s a solution though, because sometimes PvPers want the PvE stuff anyway, because it suits a specific playstyle or strategy (see Cata Rogues with PvE gear in PvP for maximum offensive power).
And I don’t like gear scaling, and generally despise scaling in all forms, so I’m not going to advocate that.
And I feel fairly confident in saying that Blizzard don’t like gear scaling either, because it dillutes the sense of character progression and gameplay identity.
And I’ll be honest and say that I don’t think the item selection on the PvP vendor is a big deal for the majority of people doing PvP. If you’re a casual scrub like me who just queues for some Random Battlegrounds and Skirmishes, then you can have fun regardless of whether you’re wearing Versatility or Haste or Mastery. It’s fine. The problematic really only centers around that small core of very competitive players for whom BiS is a self-imposed requirement.
And even with them in mind, given the change Blizzard have made to stat scaling, I think the notion of wanting to stack a single stat like we’re used to from BfA, that is not going to happen. Go beyond 25% on any stat and you’re wasting the stat budget.
So yeah, if they add some more items to that PvP vendor it’ll solve a great many of the current concerns I think.
I dont belive the little Ion li*r.
And why not on release? Does ion expect for SL to fail? And this will be an atempt to save it like essences, corruption… in bfa.
Ion said they wanted to bring back sets but not immediately. Its also a big gripe of pvers that the raid sets have gone. Whether that means pvp will have sets is debatable though.
The devil lies in the detail of course, but I’ll dare to extrapolate that a reintroduction of class tier sets also means a reintroduction of PvP sets.
And I will also say that when Ion publicly comments favorably on it as he has done, then Blizzard have already committed to it, and it will happen. Otherwise he wouldn’t have said anything.
But either way, it’s not going to be a solution for the immediate concerns in regards to the PvP vendor.
why would it mean the introduction of pvp sets? in legion we had pve class sets bonuses but nothing on pvp sets. to be fair they were disabled in arena, but i‘m still sceptical especially if you consider they often „forget“ to add things in pvp.
Would be perfect if PvP gear had a 4-6-8p bonus that’d increase damage dealt by X% and reduce damage dealt by X% (~20, 30%? Something high enough to make it worthwile)
Yeah it would require newcomers to grind BGs for a couple days to get the full bonus but that’s exponentially better than all the issues we have to put up with otherwise. And it’s not like newcomers don’t get destroyed by full m+ geared players anyways with the current system.
Honestly, the cleanest or simplest option might be truly to just add all the combinations possible to the pvp vender, so pvpers will do pvp to get the gear with the stats they want, to continue pvping…
