Shadowlands: You should be able to choose ALL covenants

[Barry-the-shatar]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Has that officially been confirmed?
Also; then switch after you’re done.
If you want to experience it all, you’re going to want to ‘finish’ a Covenant before moving on.

i has been confirmed repeatedly through blue posts, you can swap whenever you want but you need to start from scratch on the new covenant and lose all progress on the one you have left, and then for what ever reason if you want to go back you will have to jump through a lot of hoops for essentially “earn their trust” back

i think one of the main problems is that a lot of people want to take the ability that will be better for them, that comes with four main issues.

1. balancing could change this at any time meaning you have wasted a lot of time on the covenant you are with and need to start grinding again from scratch and lose the conduits you put into the soulbinds too.

2. just because something is best for one spec it doesnt mean it will be for other specs, so from personal experience, swapping between all 3 specs that i have access too will be alot more difficult.

3. you limit yourself for content you like to do, if you are a main PvPer then you will take which ever is best for PvP, which means you might not be able to take which ever is best for raiding/dungeons, this means that you have to limit your capabilities for other content you may enjoy in order to be better at other content, (i can imagine this also being a new requirement for those pesky raiderio pugs that everyone just loves so much)

4. i am a big fan of either the necrolord or venthyr as a theme for mogs and just in general, if my spec has its “BiS” ability with the night fae or the kyrian then that will mean that i end up having to go through the story of a covenant i enjoy less and end up with mogs that i dont like as much as others

this is the main issues i can see with the covenants, might not be the same issues with everyone, i like the idea of covenants because the different themes throughout the expansion work well for different people, but i dont like that they are adding a lot of character power to them making the choices for them a lot more important than they should be, removing the class abilities from them and making them into another talent row would solve a lot of problems here.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Yeahhhh this argument is a bit silly. If you start nitpicking like that there’s LOADS of ‘content’ in the game that you never ‘experience’ unless you roll every single class, of every single race with all the different profession combos, etc… It’s silly.

this isnt quite right though, because all classes are more than capable of doing all content, but its a bit difficult when you are actively feeling forced into taking certain abilities that depending on the content you will not even press, and a lot of the times with these kinds of abilities the spec is designed around some of them, so having a completely dead spell in your spellbook that you will never use isnt exactly fun is it

@Tahra-earthen-ring

That has basically always been the case already! I have always had skills that often I wouldn’t even put in a bar because I essentially never use it.

So if I go by your logic, playing any class was never fun.

there is a difference between something being a completely dead key and something you dont use that much though, for the most in BFA most classes have a use for every spell in their spell book, they might not all be that useful in content, but having a spell like a covenant ability that is important as they are trying to make them by being a cornerstone system of the expansion shouldnt be a dead spell.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Those abilities you’re getting, why not view them as EXTRAS? Bonuses. They’re not part of your base class/spec.

even if they are just bonuses, we should be given the choice to take the bonuses that we want, and taking one that is good for another spec should not lock us out of taking ones that are fun for the other specs

all people are asking for is the choice to have fun, right now thats not the case, we are given the choice for 1 out of maybe 5 or 6 different aspects of the game which then in turn makes the rest of the game a lot less fun

[Gram-ghostlands (Gram)]

I like that there will be a reason to play my alts and that there will be different content for them. I liked the class order campaigns in Legion, I played through most of them and got the class mounts for most.
In BFA I’ve only levelled a few alts recently with the xp buff, but not done the war campaign on them as it is just repeating what I’ve already done.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Barry-the-shatar

i has been confirmed repeatedly through blue posts

I think I’ve seen them all and haven’t seen:

@Barry-the-shatar

and lose all progress on the one you have left

Could you back up your claim with a link to such a post?
I mean, if it IS true then that’s bad. And Blizzard should change at least that.

@Barry-the-shatar

and a lot of the times with these kinds of abilities the spec is designed around some of them

This is not true.
No spec is build around a covenant ability.

@Barry-the-shatar

so having a completely dead spell in your spellbook that you will never use isnt exactly fun is it

There’s plenty of examples of such spells already. That’s my point; this is nothing new and shouldn’t be ‘one of the reasons this system is bad’, because that’s just silly.

@Barry-the-shatar

there is a difference between something being a completely dead key

Yeah and so far I have not seen any such spell/ability. There’s ones less useful, sure. But nothing that you’d literally never use.

@Barry-the-shatar

we should be given the choice to take the bonuses that we want

I just don’t agree. I really want Blizzard to succeed with their idea. I love the sound of being locked into a choice; if I had my way it would be permanent. No changing whatsoever. But they’re already being lenient.

[Saeryn-auchindoun]

Gods forbid we ever had to make a choice…

Screw classes, all talents and skills available for everyone!

[Barry-the-shatar]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

@Barry-the-shatar

and a lot of the times with these kinds of abilities the spec is designed around some of them

This is not true.
No spec is build around a covenant ability.

what i meant by that is times in the past where there have been similar systems, like azerite and artifacts, they have built around them as systems and completely failed to balance them.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

There’s plenty of examples of such spells already. That’s my point; this is nothing new and shouldn’t be ‘one of the reasons this system is bad’, because that’s just silly.

please tell me some abilities that are dead and have no use within the game a lot of spells dont necessarily have a combat use, but they still have some kind of use

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Yeah and so far I have not seen any such spell/ability. There’s ones less useful, sure. But nothing that you’d literally never use.

the venthyr ability for warlocks would be a completely dead spell for ST encounters, the damage wouldnt be worth the button press and you would already have your curse applied so applying a random curse would be wasted.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

I just don’t agree. I really want Blizzard to succeed with their idea. I love the sound of being locked into a choice; if I had my way it would be permanent. No changing whatsoever. But they’re already being lenient.

well unfortunately thats a stupid idea, why would having to lock yourself out of being effective in content you enjoy a good idea? that makes no sense and there is zero precident for it in previous times in the game, i get people seem to think that its some kind of RPG element and choice but thats idiotic, you are just forcing people to have less enjoyment in the game because they have to make themselves worse at some content

its comments like this on the forum causing blizzard to think the idea is good and not going to compeltely ruin the game for a lot of people. think about it this way, you are okay with it being locked and a lot of people are not, so how about they dont lock it, so that those who are okay with it being locked still have that choice of picking one and sticking with it, but those who it will ruin the game for have their choice as well. doesnt that make the most sense, that way everyone gets what they want

[Gilrom-argent-dawn (Gilrom)]

Choice is but an illusion. Death is the only path.

[Popgligor-kazzak]

@Clairesse-twisting-nether

That’s what the beta is for. I hope it gets resolved before release.

I’m in the exact same boat. If covenants are trash in beta, of course I’ll want them improved for release. But for now we can all just hypothesize. To me it really comes down to how you can swap back to a covenant, and we haven’t seen that yet. I HOPE you won’t have to refarm things.

Btw, I already wrote somewhere that conduits shouldn’t be destroyed when you take them out and should be freely swappable, maybe saved in your gear spec, so you can hotkey conduit builds. There’s things in the alpha I am already critical of. Just so people don’t think I’m a blind bootlicker xD

[Clairesse-twisting-nether]

@Popgligor-kazzak

conduits shouldn’t be destroyed when you take them out

Agree. I just really don’t know how they would go about it with their current itteration. I guess they just be taken out of the slot back to your bag when replacing but then we’d just have to carry a bunch of gems permanently taking up bag space.

Maybe instead of the gems themselves being loot, the loot could be blueprints for the gems, and the item itself could be crafted via the runecrafting system that’s in place for legendaries. So we could recraft the same conduits once we learn them, at some cost. Still not ideal tho. I don’t know.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Barry-the-shatar

what i meant by that is times in the past where there have been similar systems, like azerite and artifacts, they have built around them as systems and completely failed to balance them.

I see. Well, I guess then I disagree. At least on Azerite and Artifacts. There was balance (not perfect, but it never is). Now, that doesn’t mean Azerite didn’t have serious problems, because it did. But I personally don’t think balance was one of them.

@Barry-the-shatar

the venthyr ability for warlocks would be a completely dead spell for ST encounters, the damage wouldnt be worth the button press and you would already have your curse applied so applying a random curse would be wasted.

Which makes it only ‘not worth it’ in those situations. Other situations, it would probably be fine. Like you said in your previous bit “a lot of spells dont necessarily have a combat use, but they still have some kind of use”. I really feel you’re unfairly holding this system up to different critera.

@Barry-the-shatar

well unfortunately thats a stupid idea

My opinion. Thanks for calling it stupid.

@Barry-the-shatar

why would having to lock yourself out of being effective in content you enjoy a good idea

It’s about making that choice and dealing with the consequences. I like that in a game. Sure, I like ‘feeling strong’ too, but on my own personal scale, I like choice and consequences more.

@Barry-the-shatar

you are just forcing people to have less enjoyment in the game because they have to make themselves worse at some content

And as I’ve hopefully proven to you; that’s fine for some people. A lot of people are fine with not being good at ‘everything’. I will try and make my character good at whatever activities I will be doing in Shadowlands. And I’m not expecting to be good at everything, because quite frankly to me that seems foolish and unrealistic.

@Barry-the-shatar

its comments like this on the forum causing blizzard to think the idea is good and not going to compeltely ruin the game for a lot of people

I think you give me way too much credit. But even then; fine. Like I said; I would like it. So I, personally, am fine with it. And I realize that’s a selfish stance, but there’s already plenty of thing’s where I’m having to deal with disappointment in Shadowlands.

@Barry-the-shatar

think about it this way, you are okay with it being locked and a lot of people are not, so how about they dont lock it, so that those who are okay with it being locked still have that choice of picking one and sticking with it

No, that doesn’t work.
And I think you know that. If people can change, they will.
‘Path of least resistance’ and all that…

@Barry-the-shatar

doesnt that make the most sense, that way everyone gets what they want

No, that way YOU get what you want.
I don’t. Not that I care strongly about it. But saying I’d get what I want is just not true.

In fact… Shadowlands is already changing or taking away plenty of things that I enjoyed as a player. Why should I keep losing things or not having what I like because of other players who whine and whine? Does THAT sound fair?

There’s not just ‘one side’ here. As much as people keep saying ‘you are not affected’, it’s simply not true. You can’t say for another human being if they are or aren’t affected. Only they can do that for themselves.

[Sholah-hyjal]

@Mardwen-kilrogg

There is no reason why you shouldn’t …

There is, you just don’t like it.

Is there a reason why a mage doesn’t have access to the same abilities than a paladin ? Why do we even have classes in the first place ?

All the arguments against covenants also apply to classes, smh one is accepted and not the other.

@Mardwen-kilrogg

It’s just expansion content, and when the expansion is over no one will touch the covenants or experience them … so why make your expansion worse? Why make it “smaller”? This is just wrong.

Because it’s harder to give relevant upgrades if they are supposed to last forever ? Could you even imagine the mess it would be if we just kept corruption or azerite traits ? +100% haste with decent uptime, random procs everywhere ? Stuff like the +0.2% increase from filler talents from vanilla to Wotlk aren’t interesting;

@Mardwen-kilrogg

If I had my say, I would encourage players to play all covenants, it’s just more content regardless of what is “best”

That’s also what alts are here for, and seeing how quick you can 1-60 it shouldn’t be an issue.

[Barry-the-shatar]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Now, that doesn’t mean Azerite didn’t have serious problems, because it did. But I personally don’t think balance was one of them.

the fact that within a single patch of the expansion that had to remove some and replace them because they were so bad pretty much proves that they are completely unblanced, the fact that as a warlock at least i cant speak on most other classes were stuck using the exact same 2 or 3 traits the entire expansion and the rest were useless. like balance druids basically needing only 2 traits that are worthwhile for them.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Which makes it only ‘not worth it’ in those situations. Other situations, it would probably be fine. Like you said in your previous bit “a lot of spells dont necessarily have a combat use, but they still have some kind of use”. I really feel you’re unfairly holding this system up to different critera.

i conceded that it would have a use in other situations, my problem being that it is clearly a combat ability, and it being dead for the majority of the content outside of one specific setup is a big problem considering you are actively being forced to chose that ability over something else. thats where the problem is. i dont think that its a good idea to allow for the build around system of the expansion to be a dead spell for the majority of the content you do, when its simple enough to just stop ignoring a large number of players and just give us the choice we are asking for rather than uneccesarily limiting us.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

No, that way YOU get what you want.
I don’t. Not that I care strongly about it. But saying I’d get what I want is just not true.

so you are actively saying that you dont caree that much about it but are still willing to argue with otehrs on the forums to try and make sure that their enjoyment of the game is ruined because of a stupid system that shouldnt exist in the form it does?

and you would still have the option to play in the way that you want to. why does it not make more sense to give both groups the ability to play the way they want to compared to allowing some players to play the way they want and essentially ruining the expansion for the rest?

@Tahra-earthen-ring

In fact… Shadowlands is already changing or taking away plenty of things that I enjoyed as a player. Why should I keep losing things or not having what I like because of other players who whine and whine? Does THAT sound fair?

just because there is stuff that is being removed that doesnt mean that you should be rallying behind a stupid idea of covenants being locked, its a bit childish to fall into the “well im not happy, so you shouldnt be happy either” bandwagon

[Sholah-hyjal]

@Clairesse-twisting-nether

Switching is not an option because you lose all your progression made in that covenant. And you have to regrind the new one from scratch and the old one even more if you want to go back.

Wrong.

…SCOURGE INVASION! Pre-Patch, Shadowland’s Anti Grind, LESS RNG, New Gearing + MORE | Ion Interview

timestamped to the right sentence

[Livía-aerie-peak (Livía)]

They will in 9.3…

[Poly-argent-dawn (Poly)]

You could say the same about classes. Or factions.
There’s nothing stopping you from creating a different class. Or joining the other faction with a different character.
You can play and experience it all. Just not with the same character.

It’s the same for Covenants.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Barry-the-shatar

the fact that as a warlock at least i cant speak on most other classes were stuck using the exact same 2 or 3 traits the entire expansion and the rest were useless.

Well, I always picked the same few traits too, sure. Because I liked them.
That’s not unbalance (and fyi I didn’t even pick some so called BiS traits).

@Barry-the-shatar

considering you are actively being forced to chose that ability over something else

What exactly do you mean by this?

@Barry-the-shatar

when its simple enough to just stop ignoring a large number of players and just give us the choice we are asking for rather than uneccesarily limiting us.

So you’re saying you’re more important than those other players? Sorry, but I can’t agree with that.

@Barry-the-shatar

so you are actively saying that you dont caree that much about it but are still willing to argue with otehrs on the forums to try and make sure that their enjoyment of the game is ruined because of a stupid system that shouldnt exist in the form it does?

Yes. I am actively doing that. Blizzard listens to me. I have the power.

You’re blaming ME for BLIZZARD’S wishes on how THEY wish to make THEIR game.

Stop that. Because it’s complete nonsense.

@Barry-the-shatar

and you would still have the option to play in the way that you want to.

No. I would not.
This is what I meant in my previous post. You do not get to tell me what and what does not affect me. You don’t know. You only know what affects YOU.

@Barry-the-shatar

why does it not make more sense to give both groups the ability to play the way they want

Siiiiiigh… Because that’s not what would happen.

@Barry-the-shatar

just because there is stuff that is being removed that doesnt mean that you should be rallying behind a stupid idea of covenants being locked

Good idea.

There. I’m done with you; you are becoming unreasonable and just repeating yourself ad nauseum. Have a nice day.

[Barry-the-shatar]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Well, I always picked the same few traits too, sure. Because I liked them.
That’s not unbalance.

for a lot of people it wasnt a matter of unablance it was a matter of the others ones being next to useless compared to them

@Tahra-earthen-ring

What exactly do you mean by this?

if one ability is just a lot better than otehrs then you feel forced to take it, thats pretty straight forward and how it has worked for the longest time with talents and other stuff

@Tahra-earthen-ring

So you’re saying you’re more important than those other players? Sorry, but I can’t agree with that.

im talking about a large group of players that dont want to be stuck with a skill that is dead in a lot of content. not just myself, if you had read the bit before what you quoted that was easy enough to understand

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Yes. I am actively doing that. Blizzard listens to me. I have the power.

You’re blaming ME for BLIZZARD’S wishes on how THEY wish to make THEIR game.

Stop that. Because it’s complete nonsense.

im not blaming you alone, but a lot of players that are saying they want something a specific way and that it also doesnt matter to them, why are you trying to force it in a specific way when it doesnt even matter that much to you

you have said it doesnt matter to oyu, why are you arguing it and trying to influence in a specific way

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Siiiiiigh… Because that’s not what would happen.

so you are saying that if people have the choice to only play one or play with all of them that people wouldnt have that choice, it would be better for everyone that all of the players that care about doing different content and want to not be limited dont deserve that choice? just because the choice is there to change it doesnt mean you have to, but the choice should be there… thats all im trying to say

@Tahra-earthen-ring

There. I’m done with you; you are becoming unreasonable and just repeating yourself ad nauseum. Have a nice day.

im having to repeat myself because it doesnt seem to matter how many times i say it, your thick skull cannot understand

and yes that might be a bit rude, but considering how you were with me last time you started replying to anything i said i cant be blamed for being sick of you

constantly jumping in on topics and try to change the game to how you see fit even though its content that you have admitted doesnt affect you

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Barry-the-shatar

if one ability is just a lot better than otehrs then you feel forced to take it

Doesn’t work for me that way. If an ability really fits my character’s fantasy, I will pick THAT. No matter if it’s crap or not. And I will use it and love it because I love my character’s fantasy.

@Barry-the-shatar

thats pretty straight forward and how it has worked for the longest time with talents and other stuff

For you, maybe, sure. Not for me.
Don’t assume everyone plays the game the same way as you do.

@Barry-the-shatar

if you had read the bit before what you quoted that was easy enough to understand

No not really. But thanks for clarifying.

@Barry-the-shatar

why are you trying to force it in a specific way when it doesnt even matter that much to you

I’m not. I’m just saying what I like and don’t like. I’m not trying to ‘force’ anything.

@Barry-the-shatar

you have said it doesnt matter to oyu, why are you arguing it and trying to influence in a specific way

Because you’re arguing MY opinion and stating things that simply aren’t true.
Don’t speak for me. Simple as that.

@Barry-the-shatar

just because the choice is there to change it doesnt mean you have to, but the choice should be there…

For some players it would mean EXACTLY that.
Again; you are projecting YOUR taste, YOUR way of playing, YOUR likes/wants/needs in gaming onto other people. Don’t do that.

@Barry-the-shatar

im having to repeat myself because it doesnt seem to matter how many times i say it, your thick skull cannot understand

Yeah, become rude now, that helps.

I understand just fine. I. Just. Disagree.
And you’re not going to change my mind because I have different views on how I want to play and enjoy this game than you do. But what annoys me most is that you keep talking for me (and other players). You do NOT get ANY say in how we are affected by things. You can only speak of how it will impact YOU and you have done that and it’s clear to me. I simply disagree.

@Barry-the-shatar

and yes that might be a bit rude, but considering how you were with me last time you started replying to anything i said i cant be blamed for being sick of you

‘The last time’. I mean, I remember your name, but I don’t recall any particular conversation. If I was rude to you last time we spoke, there probably was a good reason. But just to show my good will: I’m sorry if I was rude to you ‘last time’.

@Barry-the-shatar

constantly jumping in on topics and try to change the game to how you see fit even though its content that you have admitted doesnt affect you

I like the game a certain way. It’s a forum about the game and I have the right to voice my opinions. Don’t like it? Ignore my opinions.

[Barry-the-shatar]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Doesn’t work for me that way. If an ability really fits my character’s fantasy, I will pick THAT. No matter if it’s crap or not. And I will use it and love it because I love my character’s fantasy.

so because thats how you see it, the rest of the playerbase should also be forced to play the same way you are?

@Tahra-earthen-ring

For you, maybe, sure. Not for me.
Don’t assume everyone plays the game the same way as you do.

you are doing the same thing, thinking its better for the game as a whole because you want it.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

I’m not. I’m just saying what I like and don’t like. I’m not trying to ‘force’ anything.

but people at blizz reading forums and seeing people saying and arguing about it being better a specific way will then be recieved as feedback and potentially impact decisions.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Because you’re arguing MY opinion and stating things that simply aren’t true.
Don’t speak for me . Simple as that.

what things exactly have i said that is not true, im not specifically trying to talk for everyone, im using generalisations because i have read through the forums, and over on mmo champ and on reddit and seen a general opinion, so i know for a fact a lot of people agree with me.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

For some players it would mean EXACTLY that.
Again; you are projecting YOUR taste, YOUR way of playing, YOUR likes/wants/needs in gaming onto other people. Don’t do that.

again this is the exact same thing YOU are doing, your claiming to just be offering an opinion, which is essentially what im doing too, but its okay when you do it? and you are even claiming you dont really care

@Tahra-earthen-ring

And you’re not going to change my mind because I have different views on how I want to play and enjoy this game than you do. But what annoys me most is that you keep talking for me (and other players). You do NOT get ANY say in how we are affected by things. You can only speak of how it will impact YOU and you have done that and it’s clear to me. I simply disagree.

well i know i can talk for the vast majority of my raid team who i have spoken to alot about this, as well as muliple people i have seen voicing very similar opinions. why is it you have such a problem with me voicing my opinion considering you claim to be doing it yourself, on matters you dont care about for that matter, when there are people it will affect majorly that could have a massively impacted experience,

@Tahra-earthen-ring

I like the game a certain way. It’s a forum about the game and I have the right to voice my opinions. Don’t like it? Ignore my opinions.

and yet any time i voice my opinion on a matter you jump at the chance to reply and just tell me im wrong because you feel a different way, you seem to be very good at constantly telling everyone they are wrong but any time someone says the same to you its “only your opinion”

why is it such a problem in the reverse of the situation?

[Clairesse-twisting-nether]

Speaking generally, I’ve never met anyone witch such an extremely casual approach to the game. Literally everyone I’ve ever met in this game has at least to some extent wanted to try dungeons, raiding, different things available to them including different talent builds, different playstyles, roles, specs. I’ve never seen anybody (in any game actually, not just WoW), who just picks up one thing and then stubbornly refuses anything that’s not exactly that. Basically if we had a scale and there was the world first raiders, top PvP players and world class M+ pushers on one end, somebody like you would be all the way on the other end. My own brother is one of the most casual players I know of and even he doesn’t come near your level.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying it’s wrong to play like that. It’s just as fine as hunting for world firsts or any other way of enjoying the game. I’m just beginning to get the feeling that you’re actually just as much a minority as the very top end. And then there’s everyone else in between.

By the way, Preach has made another video on this. He dives deeper into the reasons why this will affect the vast majority, not just some. It’s not even half as long as the last one. I just feel like he can help people see more points of view than just theirs and the min-maxers. Which for some reason is still going on in this discussion.

Off-topic:
If you’re reading this and you’re trying to explain to these people that covenants are bad because of min-maxing, stop. It won’t work and you just make them hate us even more.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Barry-the-shatar

so because thats how you see it, the rest of the playerbase should also be forced to play the same way you are?

I’m not saying that!
At all.

@Barry-the-shatar

you are doing the same thing, thinking its better for the game as a whole because you want it.

That’s not what you are doing. You are saying certain things will or will not affect other players (you don’t know that), and you are saying other players will do ‘this or that’ when ‘X’ happens (you don’t know that).

But yes, what you describe is indeed what I do. I think the game will be better yes. Of course I do. Otherwise why on earth would I like such things?
And don’t think that I don’t understand that not everyone would like the game ‘I would like’. But isn’t that the same for every single player?!

I’m not going to get everything I want anyway. We all get little bits and have to make it work as a whole. Or it just doesn’t work anymore for someone, and that’s when someone quits the game (or makes really frustrated forum posts).

@Barry-the-shatar

but people at blizz reading forums and seeing people saying and arguing about it being better a specific way will then be recieved as feedback and potentially impact decisions.

So? I should just shut up because YOU want something?
I’m allowed to speak my mind. So I do.

Also; there is an overrepresentation of people like yourself on the forums. That’s logical, because those kinds of players are usually more active and more fanatic about voicing their opinions.
I think it’s important that other voices are also heard here. I think it’s important that there’s a counter to all the ‘hardcore’ voices.

@Barry-the-shatar

because i have read through the forums, and over on mmo champ and on reddit and seen a general opinion, so i know for a fact a lot of people agree with me.

This is a faulty thought.
You actively seek out likeminded voices (I’m not blaming you for this; this happens subconsciously). Because you’re biased. You want to be right. You want to be proven right.
And sure, there are many people who agree with you. Of course.
But there’s also many people who do not. But those who do not aren’t that fuzzed about it. The people this system affects the most are the top players. That’s a very small minority of the playerbase.

@Barry-the-shatar

again this is the exact same thing YOU are doing

It really isn’t. I’m NOT saying things like ‘this system will not affect you’, ‘you can still play the way you want to’. And yes, I am aware of my ‘hypocritical’ response in the reply above this one. I am. But I know a thing or two and I’m just applying that knowledge. So… sorry?

@Barry-the-shatar

well i know i can talk for the vast majority of my raid team who i have spoken to alot about this, as well as muliple people i have seen voicing very similar opinions.

Same as I said earlier. You’re biased and looking for confirmation of your ‘being right’. But you’re only listening to those voices. You’re totally disregarding anyone who has a differing opinion, which your replies to me prove.

@Barry-the-shatar

when there are people it will affect majorly that could have a massively impacted experience

Are you a mythic raider? If not, this system will NOT affect you massively.
Fact. You’ll be fine. You’re making the problem bigger than it is. Don’t believe me?

Watch:

Shadowlands Current State - A Casual Chat

You’re going to believe the words of a mythic raider?

Yes it will affect those kinds of players. It does. Do I personally care about that?
No, not in the slightest. It’s a very, very small part of the playerbase and I personally don’t care about any of that scene. Not the world first, not the rankings, none of it. It can all disappear as far as I’m concerned.

To be clear; that’s not me advocating for that. Or trying to get that to happen.
That’s just me voicing my honest (and sure, harsh) opinion on that matter.

@Barry-the-shatar

and yet any time i voice my opinion on a matter you jump at the chance to reply and just tell me im wrong because you feel a different way, you seem to be very good at constantly telling everyone they are wrong but any time someone says the same to you its “only your opinion”

There’s a big difference between stating your opinion and stating so called ‘facts’. I have a problem with the latter, because more often than not, they aren’t actually ‘facts’ but just their opinion ‘made manifest’.

I have no problem at all with you stating your opinion.
Just don’t spread falsehoods. Because that IS a problem.

Now then. I hope you will enjoy Shadowlands and I hope that I will too.
Good evening.