Shaman - can they communicate with dead loved ones?

Lore Role-playing
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So I have read about the shaman and spirits, and I’m still not clear on whether my character, a regular non-special shaman orc, can speak to her father who had passed, as a spirit? Or is it more sort of just “vibes” and guiding.

Could her father visit her? And appear in some way? Or just she perhaps feels his presence. I am not sure how literal it can be.

Would he know about her life from sort of watching over or need to catch up each time?

Can she just speak to him any time or does it need to be special to call upon his specific spirit. I know it seems to be if you’re asking the favor of the elemental spirits.

Would I ask it of them? Or could I speak directly to ask his specific spirit to come? Are there basically any special guidelines or rules or journeys or items I should know about that would be involved in invoking his spirit and communicating with him?

I’d ideally like a way for her to speak to him whenever she wanted to and was feeling lost.

Thanks for any help, sorry this became such a long post!

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More or less, it may work differently for different races, but an Orc shaman could converse with the spirits of his pass family and ancestors.
Even though this is very vague.

This was how the Legion got the Orcs to massacre the Draenei, they created fake spirits (From what I recall) and used those fake ancestral spirits to turn the Orcs against Draenei

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Given our understanding of what a Shaman is in our real world, and adding to that our understanding of what a Shaman is to the fictional Orcs of Warcraft, I would say it is pretty much almost certain that you could commune with blood ancestors. How strong that guidance was, whether you heard a voice or saw a vision, whether it came in your waking hours or as a dream as you slept is pretty much all up to you. Whether you needed to induce it with certain herbs, or whether it just comes when it chooses, likewise, all up to you, but yeah, I would say it is entirely probable, not just possible, that a ‘normal’ Shaman can commune with ancestors.

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Where does the line go between Necromancy and Shamans?

In the Ashenvale campaign for instance, the Spirit of a fallen Orc spy was brought back to the world of the living to complete his final mission by an Orc shaman. That sounds pretty much like Necromancy.

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The short answer is yes, you can commune with the spirits of the dead as a shaman. The close, intimate relationship with a spirit is another matter. What comes to mind is Ner’zhul and his beloved departed mate Rulkan with whom he’d communicate for guidance. She was usurped by kil’jaeden’s illusion and when Ner’zhul finally reached back to The Ancestors, he found them outraged and Rulkan’s spirit would no longer speak with him for his crimes. They were very much aware of the fall of the orcs and the depths of depravity that the demons had led their living relatives into.

By that measure, your character could have a cherished relative that they seek out for advice but I would restrict it to special circumstances. Maybe a special family ritual at a certain spot to invoke her father’s spirit, demanding time and effort and not something to be undertaken lightly. He might know some things but not others. Typically, The Ancestors seem to be left in peace. He might not answer every time either, but send some small sign as we see when honouring Grommash; no more than a light breeze to show acknowledgement.

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Shamans do not force spirits to appear. They ask. The relationship between a shaman and the spirits is one of mutual understanding. If the spirits don’t respond, the shaman don’t force it.

This is the distinction between shaman and dark shaman. Or shaman and necromancers. The latter exert their will over the spirits and force them to do their bidding. True shaman do not.

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We have the talents Ancestral Vigor, Ancestral Protection Totem and Ancestral Guidance, so these names would suggest that the Shaman has a strong link with the ‘spirit world’ and that we communicate with spirits, or at the very least that they help us and we encourage that help. Even Ascendance suggests the ability for us to join with the spirit world to become more powerful.
so i’d say yes, we can communicate with the dead.
We see physical manifestations of spirits all over the place in Azeroth, so I’d say whichever way you see your character interacting with her father is good.
Maybe she meditates to commune with him. Or he visits her dreams.
Maybe he uses her totems as a focus location or as a summoning tool.
Maybe he is always with her guiding her actions subconsciously… spell flash?

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So in other words:

A Shaman asks a corpse to rise.
A Necromancer demands the corpse to rise.

Which still leaves out where they draw their power from. Undead are vulnerable to holy magic for instance, suggesting that they are animated by dark/unholy magic.

So even if they are polite, a shaman must still draw on dark/unholy energies to bring a spirit into the world?

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Not necessarily. Here’s what we know and what I suspect:

We know that undead, as raised by necromancers and some dark shaman, are vulnerable to holy power, as you said. They are animated by dark energy. However, those are undead bodies, standing up and walking around with either their spirits or just a basic animating force shoved inside.

Shaman don’t toy with corpses. Well, they use bones and stuff to make totems and obviously there’s leather clothes and whatnot, but they mostly leave a dead ancestor’s body in the ground or on the pyre. What they do is reach out to the spirits and ask them things. A spirit is not a corpse - a corpse is what’s left when the spirit is gone.

Now here’s what I suspect:

Could a necromancer reach out to spirits and ask them things with dark magic? Probably. They’re more apt to force the matter, but I expect it would be possible. Does that mean the only way to do so is by dark magic? No, I very much doubt that, and it doesn’t seem at all supported by what we’ve seen.

Could a shaman ask a ghost nicely to inhabit its corpse? Well, I mean, they can always ask, but I don’t think there’d be much in the way of results. That’s likely beyond the ghost’s power. Possibly the shaman could help the ghost, provide the magic for it to happen, but that would require dark magic. Nothing in their current lore suggests they can do this normally.

Thus, when a shaman wants to resort to what we loosely call “necromancy,” involving the raising of corpses and forcible binding of spirits, that shaman turns to the magic of death and decay, opposed to the spirit magics they normally wield. That much was explained in Chronicles.

Referring to the original question now: Can a shaman communicate with the dead? Definitively yes. We’ve seen that happen on numerous occasions. Some require a bit more ritual, some have more limitations, and some of those rituals and limitations might not actually be necessary but actually just be traditions to appease the spirits, like buying someone a drink before you ask them a favor.

I’m inclined to think, though, that they are not encouraged to do this frequently or casually. Your dead mum isn’t waiting for you to call any hour of the day, she’s at rest and doesn’t like being disturbed, even if she was never a restful person in life. But she will come advise you if you ask nicely and you need the help, because you’re a shaman (or have one helping you) and because she loves you.

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Wow thanks for all the replies and thoughts! There’s a lot of useful things to consider in here and insight to use.

As a few have said, it seems it shouldn’t be done lightly, and be more for special reasons, but doable, so that’s good to know going forward.

Those are good ideas and a nice ways to subtly do it.

True true.

Thanks for the long thought out posts also! It’s great to see discussions that make me think more.

It’s been really interesting to learn more from you guys too, thank you.

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That does raise 2 further questions:

  1. Are spirits drawn into the world by evil magic? The Scourge employed vast numbers of ghosts/spirits etc, all of whom were susceptible to holy magic; and all spirits I have seen have bee catagorized as undead, I.E. a Paladin’s favorite enemy.

  2. Isn’t there a difference between a necromancer reanimating a corpse and an a mage animating a pile of bones/flesh the same way they’d otherwise animate any other object, be it flying chairs/swords/snow etc. Everything I’ve seen of Necromancy seems to suggest that its the (non) use of the soul/spirit that is the most central distinguishing element.

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One of the first things we learn about shamans in Warcraft lore is how Ner’zhul, the Elder Shaman, was tricked by Kil’jaeden masquerading as the spirit of Rulkan, his wife. Ner’zhul didn’t find it weird at all, so it’s very likely something entirely natural.

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