I don’t love the idea of anything being nerfed on the basis of it performing well, but shaman healers are simply outclassing other healers to the point where other healing specs aren’t even getting considered in keys. It’s a problem and it’s not healthy for the game experience as a whole - shamans are the only healing spec to have hit +16, where almost every other healer is hard-capped at +14 - which is quite telling.
Something needs to be looked at - and my bet is, it’s their utility.
You don’t say much with this post though, other than Rsham is the meta right now and will be nerfed at some point.
It really isn’t as those teams at the very top go for the smallest edge, if there is one. Doesn’t matter how large that edge is.
Also, Resto Shaman’s throughput isn’t even spectacular, their mana management isn’t that great, etc, etc. They just have a good toolkit, and decent cooldowns on a relatively short cooldown to cover most mechanics quite well.
1.) Fix the dungeon designs
2.) Fix other healing specs
3.) Not enough? rinse and repeat.
Exactly this. Rsham doesn’t bring the most damage or healing.
I’m not sure what Blizz can do, but they won’t straight-up delete the utility buttons. They could always redesign them, the bloat is getting pretty insane, they add more utility with each expansion.
I’m in favour of just fixing the other healing speccs and then holy pala will most likely be kings again
They can start with reducing the frequency of the ‘oh my … i need to pop a cooldown’-mechanics within the same encounter, combined with reducing the amount of casters in a dungeon and poisons/dots/…tossed on players.
Yeah its a tricky one.
I can only really speak of this from the perspective of a disc priest. We obviously have utility like power infusion / mass dispel which gives us an edge in keys. I feel like Shamans don’t have much in the way of ‘unique’ utility, so to overcompensate were given everything else.
All of this has almost made them the swiss army knife of healers. My issue with that is, that overabundance of utility makes them the no-brainer choice in almost any key environment, and when all the healer specs are vying for that 1 healer spot in keys, it makes other specs feel ‘sub-optimal’ - even if that isn’t always the case.
I hear a lot of talk about ‘hps’ - but measuring the quality of our healing in that way just isn’t reflective of what ‘high value healing’ actually looks like. HPS isn’t the be-all end-all, being able to prevent damage completely is far more impactful than being able to heal through it - just as being able quickly top someone is more likely to prevent a wipe than being able to apply slow sustained healing (even if this pools higher hps overall).
At the risk of angering the Shaman community, I do think some utility needs to be removed - but I also think some ‘unique’ utility could be added to both enrich the class fantasy while simultaneously evening out the playing field a bit.
The question is, why now? I mean, their utility isn’t anything new. The only new thing is the difficulty scaling in M+, and the amount of caster mobs in there.
Touching Shaman’s utility feels like cutting down a tree because someone built a house next to after which they now complain that the tree is blocking the view.
This cannot be further from the truth. It is the first season that resto shaman has seen that popularity at the very high end (while priests, paladins, and druids see it at every season). And this is mainly dependent on the dungeons at the pool at each specific season, instead of a healer being op (ignoring the obvious exceptions like Hpals after their rework in S2 of DF).
But let me address each of your points:
Pretty low impact, since at the very high end, mages and/or evokers are played at a pretty high rate.
Counting curses at a regular dispel and poison on a long CD one as everything is abit deceptive (especially with the PCT nerf incoming). What is really happening here is that we have a season where there are a handful of curses that are impactful, and a couple of poisons (that are clustered together).
It is the same as with mass dispel at dragonflight. It was not OP overall, but it was nerfed because of the season. Or that you needed specific dispels for diseases (which now are not used in this season).
If group buffs were a factor, both druids and priests have an advantage.
If for everything you mean dispelling poisons, giving a speed increase, removing fears/charms/sleeps, and stunning/rooting, then ok. Although those are pretty specific scenarios.
Generally at the moment the high end feedback is that the main reason shamans are overwhelmingly chosen is for their poison dispel, CC, and healing profile (healing profile does not mean overall healing).
Shaman gets a nerf on next reset and yes its a decent and well targeted nerf. So i am happy for once that blizzard nerfed great.
So many BS posts like this.
Here is the problem. We ALWAYS had that utility. Why is it a problem now ?
The answer: DUNGEON DESIGN !!!
Take Poison Cleansing Totem for example. Can you absolutely trivialize the last boss of Arakara? SURE you can… But I ask you… WHY do they put an AoE Poison ? What is the goal they want to achieve here?
Why not AoE MAGIC instead of poison? That way every healer has equal chance to deal with that mechanic. Or how about NOTHING. Nobody can dispel a boss mechanic. Pop your CDs and heal through it…
Or who in gods name made an affix that can be dispelable in the first place. Just HEAL through it for gods sake. Same with the old Bursting and MD … And FYI : In DF I could also trivialize the dispel affix with the totem. And where were RShaman’s OPness then ?
And now… I got my totem nerfed to 2 minutes. You know what that means ? It means I cannot trivialize a boss in arakara which should NOT BE DISPELABLE to begin with. But now, all those poisons at the beginning of the dungeon (that TRUCK) … I cant even dispel 1 anymore. So while other classes can dispel 2 types I am now stuck with only 1.
And you, OP, a Priest should know what that feels like when you got your MD nerfed. Its the reason Priests sucks right now. You got all your utility gutted, and now you ask the same treatment for Shamans… MORONIC to say the least… because you know what the consequences are. Another healer will be OP in a month or so.
THANKS A LOT YOU WORTHLESS WHINERS !!!
So think about that for a minute before coming here to the Shaman Forum and asking for nerfs that are 100% unwarranted. So use the 2 neurons god gave you and take your BS to the “Dungeons” forums and start asking Blizzard for the REAL changes that are required.
Because this happens every season. And if next season there are some diseases that truck and only priest can dispel that… you BET people are gonna go and complain about OP priests ALL DAY and get your utility nerfed … Again …
ALL because blizzard simply cannot get their heads out of their but and implement some LONG overdue changes to the dungeon and dispel mechanics…
But apparently whiners cannot use the grey matter in their scull to see the obvious and whine for long enough to get RShamans nerfed back into oblivion where we “belong”, and where we have been for 1 whole expansion with all this “OP utility”. While we watched Priests be OP meta for 1 expansion straight… YEAH…
No thanks.
Gurl, take a xanex - a lot of unwarranted aggression there mate.
Whatever way you look at it - trying to get into any +12s as anything other than rsham is insanely difficult and whatever web of rationale you wanna spit around the core issue, it comes straight back to rshams being too powerful vs other healers.
Like cmon guys - no one wants to see their class nerfed - but all it takes is a shred of objectivity to realize that there’s a problem here - surely having a healthier game state is the real priority here.
Dude. Go look at Raider IO. 12s are 0.5% of the top player base. There has ALWAYS been a meta at those levels. Every… single… season…
And there will always be.
In S3 of DF, that had a super healthy balance in healers. If you wanted to play at those 0.5% levels of game (29s and 30s back in the day) you either rolled a DPriest or good luck with that !
And it is. But the problem is in the dungeon designs. And nerfing RShaman will not solve any of this…
Like I said. Who in gods name made the last boss or Arakara make an AoE poison ? Its a stupid dungeon design.
Imagine for a second that instead of poisons in a boss, it was a disease. That if you did not dispel that disease, it would 1-shot someone.
How would you feel ? Because that is how I felt in BH in DF !
Point being, it was super unfair to me as an RShaman to be unable to dispel those diseases in DF. And its super unfair to you (priest) that you cannot dispel curses in GB.
The solution is to normalize all this “vanilla BS” into something more modern. Such that we can either BOTH dispel that, or NONE of us. Dont you think ?
They should just nerf any non-magical debuff into the ground at this point. There are just too many of those around which are extremely punishing if not dispelled and of course people will stack classes/team comps which can deal with them easily. Then be aware of this in future M+ season to avoid a situation like the current one in advance.
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