I would like them to rename the specs too, to be more class fantasy immersive type name. The current names aren’t very good from a era before proper names for specs were done. This applies to other classes too (perhaps a thread of its own is needed for this).
We should be focused more on the Elements.
Elemental should be fire themed and perhaps could be called Fire Walker maybe.
Enhancement Air themed, Storm Caller?
Restoration Water themed, Rain Dancer?
Tank would be stone themed, Earth Warden would fit.
It’s quite fascinating how someone can find so many problems with something that isn’t a thing yet, and also drag so many unrelated things into the mix.
Wrong. I am literally one of those people who would go tank if sham could tank. I main shaman but I wanna play tank. But instead I main elemental. Why do you speak for other people?
So the specs are too similar and the way to fix that is to homogenize them? What? Homogenize means to make similar.
Honestly, it doesn’t matter if it turns out to be quite similar to another tank. It seems that based on your criteria tanks are too similar if both have damage reduction. Or self healing. Like wtf do you need to make it a unique tank?
I do not care about being completely unique, I just want a tank with shaman abilities because it’s freakin cool. And no it’s not game breaking because it doesn’t have an entirely new “niche” or mechanic.
And you cannot speak about balancing abilities and the spec already when it doesn’t even exist. There is always a tank that’s falling behind pretty much already, so who cares if there’s another, or more competition with a new spec, DH tanks already outweigh the others like crazy. Who cares if it’s kind of similar to another class. Who cares about “its own niche”.
You are taking all of these things and acting as if they are complete make or break factors, they’re not. I would still play the sham tank regardless, instead of any other tank, even if it sucks.
But for the fun of it. Shaman tanks could have mechs like making heals instant, and then help heal the entire group with instant chain heals for example. What other tank has that? None. Unique enough?
It could have some big casting spells on range, that would be cool and def unique. Would be great for kite tanking.
It could also have earthen wall totem, reduce dmg taken of the ppl inside it. What other tank has that? Crazy.
It could work with maelstrom, or is that too similar to maybe rage? But we already have two rage tanks tho so idk how the game is working at all atm tbh.
Heroism. Nuff said.
Your points are silly and pessimistic, making up problems where there are none, talking for other people too for some reason. The example of evokers range is not really related to making a new tank, it’s just a problematic thing for another class, that doesn’t mean that we can’t make a shaman tank work.
And like Gorba said, there are tons of reasons why people choose what they choose when it comes to classes, roles and specs, and that is something no one else can interfere with.
Here’s a niche btw;
They have to adjust to the changing of the elements, meaning that they gain buffs or smth based on the elements rotating and then have to adjust to that. So a buff that changes as you play, giving you different abilities and qualities/enhancements, forcing you to make different choices based on what element is currently active. I.e; water is most active, makes your heals stronger. Then 10 seconds later earth is more powerful, makes your damage reduction spells stronger. And so on.
That’s unique! Having to adjust your playstyle after a rotating set of buffs is unheard of.
What makes you think Shaman is special? Because YOU are special?
Yes I can. Its my job to do things like that on subjects much more complicated.
Also. I did it already. The most recent one: PTR Aug Evoker. How did that turn out in S2?
And that among other subjects. I can give you a list. And if you tilt me enough, I might go through the effort to look for my posts and cite them to you for extra proof.
Thats what Aug evoker enjoyers said. And in exchange we got S2.
I predicted that the same DAY Aug was announced.
And this “experiment” went “so well” that it divided the community in half 50/50 very strongly. And as a result, the dream of having a “support roll” is super dead in the water.
If Blizzard EVER does something like that again there will be riots. Oh wait… it happened… Oracle Hero Talents. Result : Riots. Blizz backtracked on them. As I predicted… I repeat… the DAY Aug was announced.
I don’t even know how to answer, you just make things up it seems. You can’t talk for me just cuz some other players did something, like wtf?? Also you know about all players choices? Maybe some people play monk tank exclusively and hate all other tanks, you don’t know that but yet you comment on it, it’s extremely weird. And you were flat out just wrong in your initial statement.
PTR means it has an outline already, it means it’s in the testing pool preparing for the game. This shaman tank idea is completely outside of the game atm, you cannot speak on the balancing of it right now cuz there’s nothing to look at, it’s merely an idea.
this sequence is kind of pathetic. You have to take risks in order to create something new and awesome. Imagine it went well, then what? Some things implemented to the game have been amazing, like Burrow for example, the shaman pvp talent. But let me guess, you predicted that too? Because you seem to portray yourself as a genius so i just thought as much. Anyhow, trial and error is better than no trial at all. Stop being so fkn pessimistic, jesus christ!
Also did you see my new niche? (last post at the end) What do you think?
I dont need to imagine. That is what im trying to tell you.
There are things that by design end up in negative feedback loops. And if your stuck in one of those, the result is bad.
You are giving me examples of individual players and their opinions. I dont know any of those people.
I am talking about generalized data here. And I am telling you that the general population of tanks (not particular people) did not change when they released new tanks.
It happened 3 times with the same result. What would make shaman special? Answer me that question before saying I say nonsense.
Im not talking for you. You talk and say what you want. And I can respond back by saying a Shaman Tank is a bad idea. And I gave logical, mathematical reasons as to why. You in exchange said “because its cool”.
Kiss, because it’s a Rock band! Eeeehehehe! Nah idk, I like Stonebinder. Earth warden is popular among the community. Geology? Stoneslinger, rock slinger, earthener. Stonemason !
I did not give individual players examples. You said it has “NEVER resulted in more tanks” and then you said “because people tank based on other factors”. This is literally talking for other people, these are 2 definite statements about other people. The 2nd on is flat out wrong seeing as I am an example of the that not being true, and the first one would be weird if it was true, but even more strange is that you somehow have the statistics on this? Just thinking a new spec would probably make people at least try it out, maybe if not for a main but at least an alt. I know that’s what I’ve done, therefore increasing the amount of tanks in the game, even if only temporary since I personally don’t like it that much.
Either way you cannot claim to know how all players make these decisions, it’s actually crazy. You cannot know why Brew Monk mains main that spec.
And generalized data speaking, it does not matter. This is one spec and one spec only that we’re talking about adding, not everyone is gonna gravitate towards it seeing as there are IDK how many specs in the game right now. So obviously a great minority is gonna become Shaman tank mains if we look at every single WoW player. But some will. Some are like me that would main shaman tank instantly despite whatever their current roles are, thereby increasing the amount of tanks, and doing so for personal reasons. So you’re being extremely silly extending this far when you’re talking to someone who does what you say no one does. And idk why you even do it? You seem like you just wanna complain, it’s honestly sad.
And that “mathematical and logical” talk about the mitigation, self heal and dodge/parry spectrum had no clear reasons as to why shamans can’t be on there aswell. So idk what you’re talking about when you say you have these clear reasons why shaman tanks wont work. You made examples on other classes having issues but that’s about it. No mention of new things that actually worked well either, just pessimistic comments about previous failures and your own incredible predictions. Kind of easy to be correct about things being bad if you say that everything new is gonna be bad, because it’s bound to happen yknow.
Last thing, you said prot warrior is far on the mitigation end of the spectrum with no heals. My alt is a prot warr and I have “Pain and Gain”, “Impending Victory”, “Leeching Strikes”, “Bitter Immunity”, “Fueled by Violence”, “Indomitable” and “Last Stand”. A few healing spells I’d say, keeping myself up rather well.
The shaman tank can easily revolve around shortening Earth Elemental cooldown and extensive usage of the earth shield. Mechanics-wise it could be a combination of damage mitigation and self-heal with the utility totems being in the class kit already, with windows of the elemental taking aggro as a defensive cooldown. We don’t have an option to tank with the summons aside from the open world, so this can and will be a new niche to fill.
I said the proportion of tanks within the general population does not change. When has there been more tanks than DPS in your LFG runs?
It is. Raider IO. The disproportion of tanks compared to DD is so massive that any errors in population sampling (which there are, only Blizz has official data) are unlikely. That means : There are more (not less) in reality than reported by Raider IO. But that error is not enough to compensate.
Does that compensate for tanks playing DPS? I main healer and ive been playing with my warrior for 2 weeks…
Its not the first time I say something is good.
Cause “Pain and Gain”, “Impending Victory”, “Leeching Strikes”, “Bitter Immunity”, “Fueled by Violence” are ALL accessible by a DPS.
“Indomitable” and “Last Stand”. These are the ones available to the warrior. You cant compare what the warrior has to what a pala, dh, Gdruid, or DK.
Look. Have it your way. Im tired of arguing when things are so obvious.
You’re plain stupid, honestly. Idk if you’re trolling me, but that would be such a brutal investment in trolling that I can’t believe it. Regardless, damn…
So what? It’s still heals, by a prot warrior. The class tree is half their class. Are you gonna remove all defensive traits that other tanks get from their class tree aswell now? Is this your new rule all of a sudden? You only talk about the actual tank tree because what, the class tree does not matter for some reason even tho it’s half the class? Goodbye Avatar too I guess. Also by this logic, the idea that these spells don’t count because they are “ALL accessible by a DPS”, that also means that we have to remove Shield Block from the equation, because that is baseline. Not only that, Ignore Pain also goes cuz that’s accessible by DPS too. Same goes for 20% bonus armor, Thunder Clap, Spell Reflect, and the list goes on. Hell even Shield Slam lol!
You see it’s stupid stuff like this that makes a person abandon you, because either you’re trolling or you’re literally this stupid, luckily this is extremely hilarious so it’s fun to spend time on. But either way what’s the point in trying to convince a literal clown of anything? It’s been a fun read anyhow, lol, you freakin buffoon. Too bad you’re tired tho, these forums needs a jester sometimes
I wonder…back in Vanilla (TBC, too? Can’t remember) Shamans weren’t designed to tank but poeple played them as tank. In dungeons at least, were raids possible, too? I know they didn’t have proper mitigation like real tank, but could/did they?
Now, I know the talents, spells and enemy mechanics are completely uncomparable to Vanilla, but would it still be possible today? In non mythic dungeons at least?
Yes, of course that doesn’t replace the idea of having a true shaman tank, just a little mindplay for the leveling phase. Maybe.
On the other hand, that idea wouldn’t work in random dungeon finder because you can’t check “tank” in the tool…eh…crap…
My entire reply was an argument and it demolished yours. You ignored 90% of my previous posts so idk what you’re mad at. For this one all I needed to focus on was the dumbest part. You are not smart enough to realize that you’ve been “dead” in this convo for quite some time. But you keep going, you keep just saying random stupid stuff while ignoring my points. You make things up and ultimately make no sense. Just stop dude, it’s pathetic. You’re not right.
Too bad you’re tired tho, these forums needs a jester sometimes