Should World of Warcraft have been a PVP game?

Well, duh. You don’t make any gold in PvP.
Bots are goldfarmers more often than not.

I was thinking about that yesterday. I have no idea what happened, lowerlevel bg’s to level were a great way of getting some xp, honor and fun along the way, and the queue was fast in the past. It just doesn’t seem to pop these days, and xp seems small compared to how it was (so I’m guessing that is linked :wink: ).

I have a few things to say here.

Firstly, I think the remark that only players with little skill enjoy gearing is a bit… sharp. And wrong. We’ve seen World of Warcraft PvP without the aspect of the MMORPG and the gearing and all the rest of it, and every time someone makes that game it just dies. Really fast, I might add.

World of Warcraft’s PvP rides on the back of the community and character identities and progression system just the same as the rest of WoW, and frankly it’s just fun to improve and customise your character, as it always is. The current system where everybody ends up geared by the end when the competition really picks up solves the problems of competitive players, and for those of us who like to engage in both game modes with one character, we’ve got a problem right now where I have to choose, but TWW will outright fix this. As far as I can tell, if they go with their current plans, TWW PvP gearing will be literally perfect, even if a little overcomplicated. But yeah.

I also think your characterisation of WoW dying due to simplicity is misguided. Were that the case WoW would be amazing right now because it’s got a ton of abilities, way more even than MoP. For me, MoP was the start of the decline because I thought it got too convoluted and more than anything else I was just getting CC’d so much it was unreal. CC chains were measured in minutes, and damage was really spiky and just generally strange. 80% resilience and stuff like that was weird, too.

I think the problem with WoD and Legion is not that we had fewer spells. Vanilla and tBC had far fewer spells than them.

I think the problem is streamlining. Streamlining not only means removing obstacles so the game flows more smoothly, it also means making it easier to work out what to do next, which simplifies the game. This is still the case. We are now in a situation where there are a ton of spells that interact in very static ways. Lots of buttons, not a lot of options.

This is the absolute worst case scenario for PvP. Nobody wants to fiddle with 30 buttons but only ever have a small number of real options. That’s the great thing about earlier PvP: You chose what spells to cast depending on enemy actions and not based on the state of your own class’s internal state. You spent much less time worrying about debuffs and procs and modifiers and the game was much more clear and visceral. It can be very hard to read modern WoW due to how many things are flying around doing modifiers to other things, and it can be very hard to predict when the modifiers hit critical mass. This also ties into the GCD change - all the GCD change did was make it harder to stack all these modifiers. The real solution is to not have as many and make the baseline spell fun to press.

So I think we need classes that are simpler but have more real options, and I think we need to just carry on with where the gearing is going, and then of course we need A LOT more content.

In order to repair the community we need to recreate gathering spots. We don’t really have that because you can do whatever you want for PvP from anywhere. There is no reason to gather, and so most people don’t. I generally dislike these modern convenient queue systems from anywhere kind of thing because it hurts the community, and PvP is no exception. PvP does need queues though because it needs to matchmake, but I think they should put them on NPC’s so we gather around them and start inspecting and duelling one another like we used to, instead of having one guy in Nagrand and another guy in the other Nagrand and another in Northrend and another still in Stormwind and yet another in Dun Morogh. We’re never gonna interact this way.

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I am not sure, can’t speak for other people but personally I’m not stepping into battleground to get insta-gibbed by some twink. If this is why most stay out then it’s quite shameful because this happened before.

I personally prefer options to choose from, rather than being forced to PvP. Also, I don’t know if PvP is really that niche as everyone mentions … quite a lot people play PvP still.

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