They seem to have forgotten the difference between, spending time in game because you are having fun and spending time basically working to be competitive.
In example I have zero regrets for grinding my rank 11 in vanilla.
I had to spend 7 days holidays to get my last rank, to get my 4 epic mounts.
Exalted with Warsong.
Exalted with the Defilers.
Could had worked towards Exalted in AV but their epic mount required 1200g training, unlike the rank 11 mounts.
I would do it again.
The set wasn’t top notch, but it was decent enough.
Compared to today’s standards everything seems designed to funnel everyone on the same path.
Having read your post, I don’t really see how you deduct that:
"[…] you’ll still have to push PvE […] if you wish to really keep up in PvP"
Mostly you seem to make the argument that having Resilience and PvP Power gave PvP gear an exclusive advantage in PvP:
"What was the most significant attribute of any PvP gear in the history of WoW? the stat exclusive to PvP such as Resilience or PvP Power.
If PvE players want to have an advantage within PvP, then they have to work for it within PvP."
And whilst that’s true it doesn’t prove the hypothesis you put forth, again being:
"[…] you’ll still have to push PvE […] if you wish to really keep up in PvP"
Where’s the evidence for that as it stands in Shadowlands right now?
Is it not possible to have a viable path of gear progression in PvP without the existence of Resilience or PvP Power? That’s what you’re not really providing an answer to, as I read it.
Well, in this particular instance I actually agree with the consensus that it was too odd to deal with at times. It’s kind of like dealing with the scaling we have nowadays between two characters that aren’t the same level. Your health would bloat upon PvP contact and so would your damage. There’s something kind of unsatisfying about never having a consistent output. I wouldn’t personally want to see the return of that. Maybe in some competitive sense, but even then I think it would be a tad annoying.
Just watched the video of Stoopzz and it seems Ion stated on his video he doesn’t want to create two separate sets of gear.
I already carry three sets of gear for three different specs.
People already carry sets for AOE and single target.
Different sets regarding corruptions.
You have a point there, although, when better systems exist from the past, I don’t see why we should revert to the more annoying one.
By “consensus” I was referring to Ion’s statement about the confusing aspect of having more sets for different purposes, but it’s a flawed argument because resilience and pvp power would also cause that. It’s entirely personal when i say that I don’t want to see that return, but it’s still better than what we have now, for sure.
Systemlands pvp vendors are there just for one reason - greasing honey around mouth for pvp players to make them shut up for a while
nothing will change with them … they wont bring fair gearing system and you will see after release
everything will go back to BFAs gearing standards (2 months non-stop PVE to actually play PVP content which is the one and only reason you play this game)
cant wait to be forced again to play those braindead PVE dungs with same mechanic, same everything
and btw if someone is arguing “i dont want another separated set for pvp / pve” … go log into game open your bag and you will find 3 or more sets depends on class you play and etc. (example for monkeys - i play rog i have haste / crit / azertie gear for pve … now i want to do pvp… i switch to vers / haste / azerite gear… and BAM thats already 2 sets)
item level is the primary concern, i’d say. if the ilvl brackets are anything like bfa, only a tiny minority of high rated pvpers will be able to get high item level gear from pvp. for the overwhelming majority, as well as the alts of higher rated players, you’re in a position where the gear you acquire from pve has a much higher ilvl.
this puts you in a position where you either choose to only gear by pvp, which puts you far behind, or you do the pve grind. your opponents will have done it.
it is not fair for average pvp players to get crushed in pvp just because they do not want to farm mythic+ for their gear. for me, it makes me not play my alts. i am okay with being a little behind on my alts, but i want to be able to jump in and play some casual arena without having to jump through a bunch of hoops first. in legion, i played so many characters casually in pvp. in wod and mop as well. in bfa, absolutely not. it sucks to be massively undergeared, it’s not fun.
at a higher level where you do get good item level, wrong stats is still a problem. if all i can get from pvp is a crit mastery ring, and i can get a vers mastery one from a dungeon, you bet i’m going to be farming that dungeon. my opponents will have put in that level of effort.
But this game is generally designed as a PVE game. So while there are being more pvp based gears and methods of obtaining them added to the game, the playstyle is still fundamentally more PVE based.
Don’t expect it to change. The team is already neck deep in all sorts of balancing issues that are about to arrive with covenants and soulbinds. Adding new sets of stats to the mix for pvp’s sake, will make you all much much more annoyed than not having them.
I still don’t know exactly how the PvP vendor will work out in regards to Conquest point acquisition, cost of items, cost of upgrades, and access to either.
If you are generous with your assumptions, then the PvP vendor can be a very viable path of gear progression.
If you’re more pessimistic with your assumptions, then the PvP vendor can be all but a minor supplement to what’s otherwise a path of PvE gear progression in Dungeons and Raids.
Too much still resides on this:
And my only point is that it’s still too soon to make any real conclusions, because we just don’t know yet.
There’s a little bit that can be said so far, like we know players will have to do some Torghast in order to acquire the legendary item(s).
I get the fear that some people have, that this can turn out really bad and PvP design can end up being a disaster. But I think it’s a bit bold to conclude that already. Too many ifs.
This is perfectly ok. People who dominate the entire game are entitled to dominate pvp as well. However, I think the reverse should happen, too, and people who choose to invest in pvp should be entitled to a pve advantage.
You’re comparing your ideal gearing system to corruption right now. You argue that something isn’t a problem because you already do it with corruptions, yet somehow this is a compelling argument because it comes from someone on youtube.
i really don’t agree with this, but it is pretty commonly said in regards to pvp. it’s refreshing to see it being said the other way as well, though. i’m well aware of how my fellow raiders would react if you needed to reach 2200 in 3s to get enough gear to make a dps check or get an orange prase.
it’s improbable that you want the same stats in pvp and pve. haste is more powerful than usual in pvp for casters, vers is more powerful for everyone and crit is much weaker.
