SL PvP vendors are not good enough

And here's why

As it stands, you'll still have to push PvE, full try-hard dragonslaying mode if you wish to really keep up in PvP - Not even talking about being highly competitive, in which case this applies even further - This is not ok.

The PvP vendors are dishonestly promoting a return to form

Shadowlands is bringing back a semblance of what once was, but it’s not enough.

What was the most significant attribute of any PvP gear in the history of WoW? the stat exclusive to PvP such as Resilience or PvP Power.

If PvE players want to have an advantage within PvP, then they have to work for it within PvP. The same standard goes with roles reversed. I’d never expect top-tier pvp gear to outperform most PvE gear. Even if we can find examples of this in WoW’s history, it’s the exception, not the rule.

Why a PvP exclusive stat is necessary

As Stoopz brought up in his video on Youtube: As it stands, you have to have more than one set of gear for the different corruptions to really thrive in PvP, seperate from PvE anyway. So the argument of Ion’s that they don’t want people to feel like they have to grind another set of gear to play PvP, is a mute point.

With all this said, I want to make it clear that I don’t think it’s bad to be able to perform in any category with one or the other type of set, but to be superior in PvP with PvE gear? Like I said, that’s not ok and just to be clear, neither would it be ok if roles were reversed.

"But WoW was never a PvP game"

WoW has a primary development focus on PvE content for sure and I myself enjoy a fair share of it, but PvP is every bit as valid a way to play the game as PvE is. The only thing that’s made it more difficult to do so, have been conscious design iterations.

It’s very disrespectful to people like me, whose primary way of enjoying the game for more than a decade, has been to play random bgs/skirmishes and gear up for it, to eventually push higher. Furthermore, it does not take away from the game within PvE.

If you’re a tourist in PvP who just wants to dabble, that’s fine, but to expect to be efficient in it with your dragon slaying gear, is an absurd entitlement complex. Please have the decency to understand and recognize that. Please also understand that the design iteration that is highly requested, existed in this game from TBC through MoP and partially within WoD too. It’s a very real legacy and structure in the game that has been forcibly removed.

"Devs don't care about the (EU) forums"

It’s important to bring this kind of feedback to a forum as you can see with topics like High Elves and back when Argent Dawn (RP) was forced into a bunch of shards (ruining a lot of RP moments). Unfortunately, even the people who would agree with me, don’t even necessarily understand why we need a reiteration of the return of PvP vendors for SL. It’s not as cut and dry as a lack of customization or being phased into oblivion on your rp realm.

I tend to see a lot of animosity towards PvP players, typically with the statement that WoW was never a PvP game, but please don’t be so selfish and/or contrarian when discussing this. It’s a subjective opinion and you forcing yours on me is not going to change my stand on how I feel about the underwhelming PvP vendors for SL. If you enjoy PvP, do share your opinion, but if you couldn’t care less, let’s just everyone spare each other’s time, yeah?

Thank you.

UPDATE 18-08-2020

we are apparently getting a revision for the gear available to us through the currency you’ll obtain via PvP. This has been deemed promising, but whether it’ll outright function as a suitable set for PvP purposes (and not be outperformed by low key mythic+ rewards and the like) is something we’ve yet to learn.

Generally, the latter goes for most things BETA, but being cautiously optimistic and making yourself heard is still important nonetheless. If they know that people won’t settle for less, that’s a good thing at the end of the day. No reason to compromise. That is all.

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I just can’t get in general the logic behind “PvP is side content, therefore we don’t need special stuff like stats exclusive to it”. Still doesn’t dissuade from the fact that it’s not PvE. PvP based around PvE gameplay (like Corruptions that help you dish out damage) is nothing but a sham. Honestly the only reason I could fathom why BfA PvP is how it is, is because of how PvE Essences and such are locked behind PvP for some reason.

If Blizzard truly hates PvP they should just remove it. If they actually do not care about PvP they should never even spotlight it in any way. Unless their method of killing things off is to saturate them beyond recognition… in which case thanks, I guess.

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I think their design philosophy is where the problems lies tbh.

They seem obsessed with game time and make the players go through every single aspect of the game in order to be competitive.

As stated by other players in other threads, when you finish what’s mandatory, you are so burned out, you no longer want to PVP. :frowning_face:

Cheers.

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This makes me sad.
I do both pvp & pve, admittedly not at a high level, but was perfectly happy ‘back in the day’ to have 2 completely separate sets of gear: pvp (with resilience/pvp power) earned in pvp and pve earned in pve. Very different ways of playing logically rewarding differently statted (if that’s a word) gear.
I was so happy to hear pvp vendors would finally be back … now I’m just a little sadder.

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The sad thing about this

We already did that before the game was designed the way it is nowadays.
I would always do a fair amount of dungeons and even raid finder, essentially breathing some life into part of the game. That in and on it self was quite time consuming in the long run. Then you get moments like during MoP where people had to win TWO measly battlegrounds to continue their legendary cloak questline and all hell broke loose.

I’ve never felt more behind in the game than I do with BfA. Every time I’ve played for a week or so after focusing on getting some semblance of gear, I like to try out a bg, only to realize that I’m so hopelessly far behind, with no other means to catch up than to play a ton of content I don’t enjoy. It borders on depressing.

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This bit is so amusing in hindsight. Lmao.

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I don’t PvP so I haven’t seen much news on it; can you explain this please? I know its pretty bad right now but I haven’t seen anything about it in SL.

The secondary stats on PvP gear are typically not BiS and even contradicts the general improvement curve of your class’s performance, so even on a low-end of ilvl gearing, the gear offered by the SL PvP vendor will be inadequate very often.

Furthermore, there’s nothing that separates PvP gear from PvE gear. If you get a tangible upgrade from doing even lower keys in Mythic+, why would you ever bother with the trash PvP gear?

One way to change this terrible design is by making use of exclusive stats for PvP such as PvP power or Resilience (preferably the former), since it would mitigate the otherwise underwhelming stat optimization and even outright encourage wearing it over PvE gear.

If that doesn’t make sense I recommend watching Youtuber, “Stoopz” video on the subject matter, which is where I got my information about the ‘changes’ in the first place.

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I think that’s BFA in a nutshell.

They seem to have forgotten the difference between, spending time in game because you are having fun and spending time basically working to be competitive. :frowning_face:

In example I have zero regrets for grinding my rank 11 in vanilla.
I had to spend 7 days holidays to get my last rank, to get my 4 epic mounts.

  • Exalted with Warsong.
  • Exalted with the Defilers.
  • Could had worked towards Exalted in AV but their epic mount required 1200g training, unlike the rank 11 mounts.

I would do it again.
The set wasn’t top notch, but it was decent enough.

Compared to today’s standards everything seems designed to funnel everyone on the same path.

Cheers.

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Having read your post, I don’t really see how you deduct that:

"[…] you’ll still have to push PvE […] if you wish to really keep up in PvP"

Mostly you seem to make the argument that having Resilience and PvP Power gave PvP gear an exclusive advantage in PvP:

"What was the most significant attribute of any PvP gear in the history of WoW? the stat exclusive to PvP such as Resilience or PvP Power.

If PvE players want to have an advantage within PvP, then they have to work for it within PvP."

And whilst that’s true it doesn’t prove the hypothesis you put forth, again being:

"[…] you’ll still have to push PvE […] if you wish to really keep up in PvP"

Where’s the evidence for that as it stands in Shadowlands right now?

Is it not possible to have a viable path of gear progression in PvP without the existence of Resilience or PvP Power? That’s what you’re not really providing an answer to, as I read it.

The reason is because Ion wants to dominate people in Bg’s using his dragonslayer gear.

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I think pvpers should be able to get special rewards. As it is now only high end raiders can actually get those due to gear.

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I am curious why we can’t just get the WoD PvP gearing and scaling system back. That system worked the best by far.

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Well, in this particular instance I actually agree with the consensus that it was too odd to deal with at times. It’s kind of like dealing with the scaling we have nowadays between two characters that aren’t the same level. Your health would bloat upon PvP contact and so would your damage. There’s something kind of unsatisfying about never having a consistent output. I wouldn’t personally want to see the return of that. Maybe in some competitive sense, but even then I think it would be a tad annoying.

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Just watched the video of Stoopzz and it seems Ion stated on his video he doesn’t want to create two separate sets of gear.

I already carry three sets of gear for three different specs.
People already carry sets for AOE and single target.
Different sets regarding corruptions.

I fail to understand Ion’s logic tbh …

Cheers.

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Yes, I also cover this in my OP. It’s a mute point that he’s making.

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Far less annoying than the clownshow we have today. BfA PvP is easily the worst I have ever seen.

And I don’t think there is a “concensus”. I have seen quite a few people say the same thing.

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They stated they made experimentations, corruption being part of it.

We paid for a beta testing.

Cheers.

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You have a point there, although, when better systems exist from the past, I don’t see why we should revert to the more annoying one.

By “consensus” I was referring to Ion’s statement about the confusing aspect of having more sets for different purposes, but it’s a flawed argument because resilience and pvp power would also cause that. It’s entirely personal when i say that I don’t want to see that return, but it’s still better than what we have now, for sure.

Systemlands pvp vendors are there just for one reason - greasing honey around mouth for pvp players to make them shut up for a while
nothing will change with them … they wont bring fair gearing system and you will see after release
everything will go back to BFAs gearing standards (2 months non-stop PVE to actually play PVP content which is the one and only reason you play this game)

cant wait to be forced again to play those braindead PVE dungs with same mechanic, same everything

and btw if someone is arguing “i dont want another separated set for pvp / pve” … go log into game open your bag and you will find 3 or more sets depends on class you play and etc. (example for monkeys - i play rog i have haste / crit / azertie gear for pve … now i want to do pvp… i switch to vers / haste / azerite gear… and BAM thats already 2 sets)

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