I have to admit I have not met a single class in this game that can not farm their bis stats in pve. I can however list +10 specs from thw top of my gead that can’t in pvp, so the comparison isn’t realky fair at all. Pve has more stat combos for items. Pvp has less. Pvp should have the equal stat combos at the very least.
If the pve players can do it, then pvp players should also be able to do it. Again, equality.
Ideally secondary stats should be just that; secondaries.
Do you want a faster gameplay? Pick haste. Do you wabt specific, core mechanics of your class to feel stronger than usual? Pick mastery. Want to have big crits and very spiky damage/healing? Take crit. Or if you want a bit of everything, take versa.
But put those stat weights in a line, their impact to your overall performance on x simulation should be as close to 1 as possible.
Thats how secondary stats should be imo. Your primary stats (agi/str/int/stam) should always be your BIS thing to look at.
Make conqueror pvp gear be bis for pvp but still make mythic pve gear better than honor pvp gear, so pve players dont start from cero if they decide to pvp after raid as a secondary thing.
Well, I won’t claim to know the ideal stat combinations for all 36 specs in Shadowlands before Blizzard have concluded the class design and tuning. And even then…
But my point is merely that you can’t get all stat combinations from PvE, just as you can’t get all stat combinations from PvP. Combine the various aspects of the game, and then you can.
I also think it’s worth saying that PvP and PvE are not 1:1 comparisons.
All PvP activities will feed into the Conquest point system and the PvP vendor.
But loot obtained from Raiding is entirely separate from loot obtained from Mythic+ Dungeons. Those are two different activities that needs to be done independently of each other. A PvEer is not by default one who excels at both. Lots of players focus only on Raiding or Mythic+ Dungeons, or they’re good at one and suck at the other.
I don’t think it’s fair to present it as if PvPers only do Arenas and PvEers do everything except Arenas.
Again, I’d agree if I could get every single stat combination on every single piece of gear within Castle Nathria. But I can’t.
On a final note: I think the Weekly Chest is being overlooked a bit here. What you can’t get from the PvP vendor, you can most likely pick from the Weekly Chest. Use that to augment your weak spots.
That doesn’t matter. The point is that pve has more gear optimization options than pvp does. If gearing’s to be equal, then there should be an equal number of choices. For pvp and pve.
You are fsr more likely to be able to get all your stat weights in pve than pvp, and this remains the case currently in SL too, simply because there is a larger quantity of them in pve. All i ask for is an equal amount of options.
Yeah, agreed, they aren’t but if you wabt equal gearing then you have to de-facto make it a 1:1. Not a 0.6 to 1. Equality means that.
Don’t want to do any pve content simple as.
Atm sometimes you do not want an upgrade based on item level because it has bad secondary stats for you, because in many cases secondary stats > prime stats.
That is the point.
You mean like proper designers that have had to back down on literally every goal they have had, because they do not work in practise?
They actually haven’t been wrong with this. You were.
They add more stats into the game, then you’ll see balancing issues with the newly added stats. Covenant and soulbind abilities will affect them differently, so another layer of complication.
You’ll have to carry an entirely separate set of armor.
You’ll be punished for wanting to play both PVP and PVE and only playing at one extreme will be good.
World pvp will become extremely one sided.
And more issues that come with pvp specific gears.
But yea. Ion doesn’t know anything. You sure know how to enjoy this game.
A PvP stat should absolutely not be making a comeback. I shouldn’t get obliterated by a worse player just because they happen to be wearing the right gear.
It would also pretty much kill-off PvP for players who only do it occasionally. Back in the days of resilience, farming the gear took weeks of PvPing. Weeks of absolutely having your butt handed to you by anyone who as much as looked at you. PvP stat was the reason I never truly got into PvP in the first place, as I’d just get discouraged at the thought of dozens of hours of the absolutely worst grind in the game.
Versatility does a fine job as a PvP stat substitute. It gives something for PvPers to focus on while being obtainable and useful in all types of content. The only thing Blizz needs to get right at this point is gear acquisition through PvP.
Bs, you could be fully geared in an honor set in 2 days or less.
And yet participation was way higher than what it is now. I find it quite funny that people who hardly pvp at all want to dictate how PvP gearing should work.
Get rekt, loser. Next time don’t go in a sword fight with an arrow in your hand.
Good.
If you can’t handle the oh so awful grind that makes you pvp to get pvp gear (imagine the audacity!!!1) then you should probably stick to some degenerate repetitive content such as raiding or m+.
Except versatility is grinded the most by doing PvE content to be proficient in a PvP setting.
Which is being fixed in SL by the addition of PvP vendors… given they don’t mess it up somehow. Fingers crossed.
Edit: And no it isn’t. Given both of you have the same ilvl, these days both players have a pretty good chance of emerging victorious from a fair duel. Back in the days of resilience, it was borderline impossible for a player in a PvE gear to defeat a similarly-geared player in PvP gear (it’s a hyperbole, before I inevitably get showered in anecdotes of how people once managed to do it).
Yes. If you played 24 hours a day, you could be geared in full honor set in 2 days. But if you could only do a few BGs a week because you either had better things to do than spent 2 days straight on a videogame or there was only so much getting absolutely deleted by absolutely everyone you could take before calling it a day, it would realistically take quite some time.
Now that PvP stat was removed, I PvP quite a bit actually. If they fix gearing though PvP, I will PvP more still.
How is that any different than what it is now? A fresh 120 absolutely stands no chance against fully geared players. I’d even argue that the gear gap has never been this big before.
If I only have the time to play a couple of hours every week, I would also still be cannon fodder. That’s just the nature of how this game works, minus Legion. While some people liked it, alot disliked it, myself included. Even in PvP some form of progression is what made me enjoy it, getting stronger with every upgrade.
I can understand the frustration of feeling absolute useless when trying to gear in the old age of pvp gearing, but everyone was in the same boat. And for me it just felt great to feel your character getting stronger and stronger untill you caught up.
Personally, I don’t find this to be important, because they’re so different.
PvP has the huge benefit of being deterministic, so you can choose the item you want. There’s no luck involved in the process.
I kind of feel it’s okay if different aspects of the game provide different rewards through different means of distribution.
Lots of content contributes to the Weekly Chest, including PvP, so you shouldn’t have to.
By and large, if you’re a top-rated player, then like today, this is probably going to be one of your major sources of gear. And you get to choose the item in the chest this time, making it even easier to target whatever stats you want.
I’m fine with WoD scaling so that’s a moot point. Tge design is already there, tried and tested (and it works).
You already do. I alone carry a set of armor for m+, pvp and raiding as do literally most other people. Please, this argument is garbage and dishonest.
No you won’t be. You want to play both? You can. Nobody’s stopping you. People who want to play and excel in pve can get that good gesr in pve and also that same gear in pvp.
Reminder that during WoD, when gearing was as proposed, bg’s, rbg’s and arena were on par/more popular than pve activities (confirmed by Brian Holinka over twitter).Come legion that participation crashed down and has further gone down the hill (and yes, we know this from the % of glad numbers). Turns out inclusivity didn’t improve pvp, it killed it.
Meanwhile the people who just want to pvp can do that. As can those that just want to pve.
Imagine having to do pvp in order to be good in pvp. An outrageous concept, isn’t it? Clearly I should be able to fart at mythic raid bosses after reaching x rating because somehow my expertise grants me a free entitlement reward.
Yeah I do and I have never to this date found Blizzard to be right with telling their players how they need to play the game.
Well again, it doesn’t really matter what you or I think. If the gearing is to be equal, then word on word it needs to be.
It’s almost as if their reward systems and rewards in general should be 100% separate from one another as they were for the majority of this game’s life.
You don’t get m+ or raid options in it if you do none of those things and if those are the only place to get stat weights you like then the gearing is not equal.
Wod didn’t have corruption/covenants/other stuff they plan on adding. WOD didn’t have the same scaling system and WOD didn’t have any content to begin with. And when there’s not much to do, even that extra bit is better than nothing
And you think it’s a good thing now? So your plan is to add more to it? The garbage argument is to have a garbage system now and wanting to make it worse and calling it valid argument.
you’re apparently not getting it. Let me clear stuff a bit more.
you have stat X that’s pvp specific. Trash for PVE. So in order to excel at pvp, you need to spend most of your time with pvp content for the sake of pvp. But then, you’re useless when it comes to raiding because you only have pvp gear.
And vice versa. This would mean, people who want to play both content with the same amount of time they usually play, can’t succeed at doing both on a high level, so they have to choose one and ignore the other or be mediocre at both or play double the necessary time.
And again you’re bringing up WOD. WOD was an expansion with NOTHING. People left the game back then. Saying pvp was more popular then is like saying corruption is popular because everyone’s farming it now. When there is nothing better, you tend to go for what’s left. IT went downhill during legion because CONTENT was added that was actually worth playing.
You’re so one sided in thinking, that i don’t think i’ll ever be able to explain any of this to you. But let’s try.
The reason people have to do mythic+ for that good trinket is because pvp doesn’t have that good item as an equivalent.
Again, you’re justifying a garbage idea by promoting the current garbage system. The massive reliability on trinkets and corruptions isn’t a good thing to begin with. And your idea would basically make the dependence shift from that to no PVE, only PVP. Same garbage, different quality.
It’s again a moot point because WoD doesn’t add any new stats. It just scales tour ilevel higher in pvp situations. Nothing fundamental changes because ilevel will increase regardless as time progresses.
It is what it is. Ion’s words are that he doesn’t want people to have to farm several sets, yet his own game design has lead to everyone needing different sets. Yet he speaks as if this is a problem we players have created, when its all on his head.
This = garbage argument.
Gear optimization has always and will -always- exist in this game so to pretend that having to haul around multiple sets of gear is somehow a massive problem when that has been the status quo thanks to the actions of this clown. Bagspaces have also increased so there should be no problem.
You are fighting against windmills.
WoD scaling isn’t a stat, it just increases your ilevel in pvp combat.
As it should be.
Seems fair.
Spending more time on the game and doing things they want is a choice they make, not the rest of the players.
True, WoD failed because it had bo content and garrisons were a disaster. But, gameplay and game design was solid. Far better than BFA or Legion and Legion’s sub numbers (let alone BFA’s) tanked way harder, so no matter the netric you want to use for this argument, objectively WoD was still better.
Lol what? If the then head pvp developer tells people in Twitter who are telling pvp players that pvp is a minigame and that WoW is primarily a pve game and they should just suck it up that “Actualky you are completely wrong, pvp is on par if not more popular than pve activities are”. And then come Legion, pvp participation fell record low and has remained there since apart from BFA s1 first two weeks. Weird, isn’t it?
But hey leave it to the poster, who will they believe, the word of a guy working on that part of the game, or the opinion of some random hobo over the forums?
You will find that WoD’s pve content (mainly raids) are universally hailed as some of the if not the best raids ever in the game, with BRF being chosen multiple tiles by top guilds as the best raid to date so again you are objectively wrong. Trying to tell people that enjoy pvp that actually they didn’t enjoy it doesn’t work, sorry.
Considering we’ve been told in the pvp community to suck it up multiple times for the past 6 years and pve monkeys go apes the moment you add any pvp requirement in the game, yeah, I think it is deserved.
If I had it my way I’d purely out of spite force every single pve player do a hundred arenas for an attunement to do raids or m+. A small price to pay for the time I have had to waste in raids and m+.
Probably not a good thing for the game but a man can dream lol.
You saw it work out a couple of expansions ago. You think it still works.
I’m trying to explain that it WON’T. The current system is much more complicated than what it used to be. And it’s getting even worse for shadowlands.
Forcing separate gear will result in people LOSING INTEREST in pvp. Not gaining it. Because accept it or not, this game is fundamentally designed as a PVE game and pvp is an addition. Not an equal. It has been the same since classic. And when push comes to shove the way you want it, people will lose interest in PVP and you might think of it as a good thing, but it won’t be.
I don’t think it’s been stated anywhere that gearing is supposed to be equal. In fact, I specifically recall that Ion Hazzikostas has said that Blizzard are fine with there being some overlap between PvE and PvP, hence so far as min/max is concerned.
