SL PvP vendors are not good enough

[Jito-turalyon (Jito)]

@Lichbørne-outland

You always seem to find arguments to your claims and make ppl belive that you are right even if you are wrong jito. You should go in politics

The WoW forums today.

Tomorrow…

World domination.

[Korok-zandalar-tribe]

@Jito-turalyon

Is it not possible to have a viable path of gear progression in PvP without the existence of Resilience or PvP Power? That’s what you’re not really providing an answer to, as I read it.

What would that be? We haven’t had it before. Legion doubled down on making it a matter of 10 to 15 %'s difference in your stat template at the most (maybe it was possible to reach for 20 % around 7.3, I can’t remember).

We haven’t had it before. You can alter certain things like bringing back set bonuses, but that’s kind of iffy as well, making it feel like you have to gear up to complete your character’s toolkit, rather than improving on its efficiency.

Everything except for Legion has done away with multiple sets of gear to keep up, including BfA.

@Jito-turalyon

Where’s the evidence for that as it stands in Shadowlands right now?

@Korok-zandalar-tribe

The secondary stats on PvP gear are typically not BiS and even contradicts the general improvement curve of your class’s performance, so even on a low-end of ilvl gearing, the gear offered by the SL PvP vendor will be inadequate very often.

Furthermore, there’s nothing that separates PvP gear from PvE gear. If you get a tangible upgrade from doing even lower keys in Mythic+, why would you ever bother with the trash PvP gear?

One way to change this terrible design is by making use of exclusive stats for PvP such as PvP power or Resilience (preferably the former), since it would mitigate the otherwise underwhelming stat optimization and even outright encourage wearing it over PvE gear.

If that doesn’t make sense I recommend watching Youtuber, “Stoopz” video on the subject matter, which is where I got my information about the ‘changes’ in the first place.

[Tralandrel-argent-dawn]

@Jito-turalyon

@Tralandrel-argent-dawn

Jito is Ion Hazzicostas on an EU account.

And there it is. Only 11 posts needed this time. Not a record, but still…

Ion, are you angry your mask slipped so easily this time?

Edit: Ion, I just saw that your main account on NA is only honor level 5. No wonder you keep talking bag about PvP when your participation in it is probably just one random battleground per PvP season.

[Noremorze-outland]

Perhabs you should just stick to twitch chat, where they all type like complete morons.

[Marreant-twisting-nether]

Blizzard honoured the player request, but not the spirit of the request.
you will play the game the way THEY want you to.

SL is BFA 2.0.

enjoy your senseless grinding.

[Durham-sylvanas]

stats shouldn’t be on armour anyway, that makes NO sense, put them on the player where they should be and you wouldn’t have to carry sets around…
and i’m no authority on the subject but i still feel it would be better to stop over complicating everything with dumb numbers and give us a much wider range of spells and abilities so the whole game didn’t revolve around death by cc and who has the biggest crit…-.-

[Ceressa-darkmoon-faire]

@Lxser-draenor

pvp players mad they’re getting exactly what they deserve: nothing.

You are a special kind of moron.

I take it that a bad bad PvP player made you cry? Did mommy give you a kiss afterwards?

[Atahalni-argent-dawn (Atahalni)]

@Alexima-kazzak

Adding new sets of stats to the mix for pvp’s sake, will make you all much much more annoyed than not having them.

Don’t tell me what I am supposed to enjoy. Ion & the dev team have tried to do that the past 6 years, and they have been wrong the whole time.

[Atahalni-argent-dawn (Atahalni)]

@Jito-turalyon

If you are generous with your assumptions, then the PvP vendor can be a very viable path of gear progression.

The issue as it stands atm is that you can not get all optimal stat combos in pvp. You can, in pve.

If gear is supposed to be just gear in SL then the vendors should also sell a larger variety of stat combos too, to represent the variety that pve has.

Equality.

[Lxser-draenor]

@Noremorze-outland

Perhabs you should just stick to twitch chat, where they all type like complete morons.

Aw did I hurt your insecure feelings? You’re projecting <3

@Ceressa-darkmoon-faire

You are a special kind of moron.

At least i’m not broke

@Ceressa-darkmoon-faire

I take it that a bad bad PvP player made you cry?

Did I hurt your feelsies too?

@Ceressa-darkmoon-faire

Did mommy give you a kiss afterwards?

I wish

[Seren-aggramar]

I guess we forgot to ask for USEFUL PvP vendors, when we screamed PvP vendors

Maybe they’ll understand what we’re asking for after Shadowlands.

[Atahalni-argent-dawn (Atahalni)]

@Gannet-twisting-nether

the goal Ion was talking about is to make the game feel somewhat playable at entry and mid levels.

Then Ion has to balance the stats more closely between one another, so choosing a secondary becomes just a preference choice rather than a performance one.

[Noremorze-outland]

@Lxser-draenor

Aw did I hurt your insecure feelings? You’re projecting <3

Imagine not using the term projecting correctly. And sorry to disappoint you, you did not hurt my feelings. Better luck next time and have fun typing like a clown on twitch.

[Barzda-silvermoon]

@Korok-zandalar-tribe

And here's why

As it stands, you'll still have to push PvE, full try-hard dragonslaying mode if you wish to really keep up in PvP - Not even talking about being highly competitive, in which case this applies even further - This is not ok.

The PvP vendors are dishonestly promoting a return to form

Shadowlands is bringing back a semblance of what once was, but it’s not enough.

What was the most significant attribute of any PvP gear in the history of WoW? the stat exclusive to PvP such as Resilience or PvP Power.

If PvE players want to have an advantage within PvP, then they have to work for it within PvP. The same standard goes with roles reversed. I’d never expect top-tier pvp gear to outperform most PvE gear. Even if we can find examples of this in WoW’s history, it’s the exception, not the rule.

Why a PvP exclusive stat is necessary

As Stoopz brought up in his video on Youtube: As it stands, you have to have more than one set of gear for the different corruptions to really thrive in PvP, seperate from PvE anyway. So the argument of Ion’s that they don’t want people to feel like they have to grind another set of gear to play PvP, is a mute point.

With all this said, I want to make it clear that I don’t think it’s bad to be able to perform in any category with one or the other type of set, but to be superior in PvP with PvE gear? Like I said, that’s not ok and just to be clear, neither would it be ok if roles were reversed.

"But WoW was never a PvP game"

WoW has a primary development focus on PvE content for sure and I myself enjoy a fair share of it, but PvP is every bit as valid a way to play the game as PvE is. The only thing that’s made it more difficult to do so, have been conscious design iterations.

It’s very disrespectful to people like me, whose primary way of enjoying the game for more than a decade, has been to play random bgs/skirmishes and gear up for it, to eventually push higher. Furthermore, it does not take away from the game within PvE.

If you’re a tourist in PvP who just wants to dabble, that’s fine, but to expect to be efficient in it with your dragon slaying gear, is an absurd entitlement complex. Please have the decency to understand and recognize that. Please also understand that the design iteration that is highly requested, existed in this game from TBC through MoP and partially within WoD too. It’s a very real legacy and structure in the game that has been forcibly removed.

"Devs don't care about the (EU) forums"

It’s important to bring this kind of feedback to a forum as you can see with topics like High Elves and back when Argent Dawn (RP) was forced into a bunch of shards (ruining a lot of RP moments). Unfortunately, even the people who would agree with me, don’t even necessarily understand why we need a reiteration of the return of PvP vendors for SL. It’s not as cut and dry as a lack of customization or being phased into oblivion on your rp realm.

I tend to see a lot of animosity towards PvP players, typically with the statement that WoW was never a PvP game, but please don’t be so selfish and/or contrarian when discussing this. It’s a subjective opinion and you forcing yours on me is not going to change my stand on how I feel about the underwhelming PvP vendors for SL. If you enjoy PvP, do share your opinion, but if you couldn’t care less, let’s just everyone spare each other’s time, yeah?

Thank you.

Ya, ban pve players from pvp, enjoy 30min BG queues

[Jito-turalyon (Jito)]

@Atahalni-argent-dawn

The issue as it stands atm is that you can not get all optimal stat combos in pvp. You can, in pve.

I’d say that you can get some stat combinations in PvP and you can get some stat combinations in PvP. Neither provides everything.

If people want to min/max to the 100th percentile, then I personally feel that’s the player’s choice to pursue that degree of perfection, not the game imposing it as a requirement.
Hence, if it turns out that you need to do dungeons, reputations, fishing, or crafting, in order to get some BiS item that’s marginally better than the second-best option you already have, then that’s the player’s own choice to pursue that with all the hardship it entails.

Being viable and being optimal are somewhat different.

I think the PvP vendor should provide a viable path of gear progression for PvP.
I think WoW in its entirety should provide the optimal path of gear progression.

If you want the very best the game has to offer, I think it’s only sensible that you also have to excel at the game in its entirety, and not just a small portion of it.

He who excels at Raiding will get good rewards.
He who excels at Mythic+ Dungeons will get good rewards.
He who excels at Arenas will get good rewards.
And he who excels at all of the above will get the best rewards.

[Elias-drakthul]

Thats nonsense. If you balance stats to be close to each other for every class then you are not chossing anything becouse it doesmt matter what you chosse you will end up with same dmg boost. You migh also just remove stats completly becouse they will stop matter.

[Lxser-draenor]

@Noremorze-outland

Better luck next time and have fun typing like a clown on twitch.

You’re actually so upset about me using kekw it’s crazy.

Must be tough to be this insecure irl

[Noremorze-outland]

Except that I’m not upset in the slightest, just making an observation. Better luck next time, oh great armchair psychologist! Time to put you on ignore.

[Lxser-draenor]

An observation

I recommend going to the gym and visiting a barber chief.

[Noremorze-outland]

Anyone who excels at both raiding and m+ should not have an advantage in pvp though, which is literally the case now. Every BiS azerite item for shadow priests for pvp for example can only be obtained from PvE, which quite frankly is ridiculous. With that said, I don’t think the SL PvP vendor is as bad as some people here make it out to be.