So sad - how did game fell so hard ?

PVP Arenas
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What you see on tournament reflects the state of the game. If you come with a healer any other than r Druid, you will lose and you have to switch. Similar with dps.

You can not play what you want and like, you have to play few things only because of Blizzards incompetence to make a playable fun game.

This is so disappointing… So so sad :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

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There is really feeling they don’t test the game at all pvp wise. Probably if there was some game tester,then now they are sacked from job for sure :smiley:

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pvp has been sh*t since WoD, nothing new tbh

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To be honest I had a lot of fun playing all of my classes in WoD

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In MoP I enjoyed every spec I played, in WoD I enjoyed most of them, in Legion I enjoyed a few of them, in BfA I enjoy practically none of them

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Cata, MoP and even WoD was on point when it came about PvP.
WoD is still debatable but tbh, BfA is at all totally boring and really bad compared with them.

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WoD was really bad though to be honest, compared to BfA it was still solid though, I liked the pvp reward system and the gearing

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And it really gets worse and worse each expansion.

I still think Pruning was the right decision, just that they hid the wrongs things like Scare Beast.

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But how would you compare WoD to MoP ? Did you there still ahve more fun in WoD ?

I too had more fun in WoD then currently or in Legion. I too had more fun in legion than Bfa.

That is just from the gamplay/class design standpoint without the flaws like AP farming and Ashran.

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They pruned for PvE though, obviously things that have niche in PvP would just disappear. They’ve dumbed down how everything works because of either PvE or “consistency”.

I seriously miss doing things like vanishing off spells even if its totally niche and almost never worth doing in arena.

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MoP was WoW’s peak gameplaywise and it was the most fun in general.

I just don’t think WoD was so bad from a PvP players perspective.

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It had other problems. The CD stacking was even higher there.

Bfa got the other problem of the GCD change in my opinion. Slowed the pace of the game way too down.

I guess they did that to prefent the CD stacking ? But its a band aid fix. Instead of fixing the cause for the problem they only dampen the consequences.

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This. I’ve never felt this is more true then now.

It depends on which class/spec you played, and how serious you were. If you’re a casual (like <2.3k) or if WoD was the first expansion you started playing seriously in then I’m sure you didn’t see an issue with WoD class design.

Some specs got completely ruined in WoD, compared to MoP S15 (like Arms, Frost, Fire, MM, Affliction etc), while others didn’t get hit that hard (Feral, FDK etc). Then some (most) specs got hit again in Legion, and some again in BfA. Some specs even got ruined in both WoD, Legion and BfA.

Essentially this:

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Isn’t that how it is in any game?

That’s what Meta is.

Overwatch has a meta. Some heroes feel close to mandatory and others seem crippled.

League of Legends has a meta. Hundreds of characters to choose from, but the top players narrow it down to a few dozen at best – the rest considered inferior choices.

Chess has a meta. The most popular by far is e4 or d4, Spanish or Sicilian variations. You can play Dutch as black, but it’s not regarded as the strongest choice.

WoW has a meta. With 36 specs in the game, the gameplay at the higher levels will always boil down to the specs and strategies that are regarded as the strongest. That’s the meta.

There is no game on earth that doesn’t have a meta where players gravitate toward a preferred style of play, favor certain choices over others, and generally try to establish the most optimal way to achieve success.

It strikes me as weird to expect WoW with its 36 specs and 11 Arena maps to be the one game that defies all other games by not having a meta – by being a game where all choices and all playstyles are equally viable and strong.
That’s just not how a competitive game environment works. And it’s arguably not something to strive for either, because a lot of the skill comes from understanding the meta and knowing what to play and how to play it.

WoW has a bit of a crutch in the sense that you can’t so easily make choices depending on the meta. Most players are stuck with whatever classes or specs they happened to decide on when they began playing the game years ago.
In Heroes of the Storm you can discard your Chen for Blaze if you feel that Chen is terrible. In WoW it’s sometimes less desirable to discard your main character for a fresh alt. That is the bane of trying to have an Arena style PvP mode within an MMORPG that emphasizes playing a single character. Be that as it may.

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6 specs out of 36 is meta only in wow. I play other MMO’s too. Look at GW2. You can play whatever you want… Ever since blizzard made it so that spec is basically a class, that is when things started to go down the hill.

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Meta is just an acronym for ‘most effective tactic available’ if you wanna get all technical about it. The implications of what it is and how many options there are is a whooole other story though.

And no, chess doesn’t have a meta for the opening move. You don’t know enough about chess theory if you think there is one. There are just different pros and cons to each possible opening move, and no opening is stronger than all the rest. There are just personal preferences as white, and as a consequence there are some worse and some better as black since it has the inherent role of reacting.
Because depending on the tactic you wish to go with and expect the opponent to allow in the mid game, you choose your opening accordingly.

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Debatable.
The higher the skill level, the narrower the choices become, because the meta is more defined.
If only 6 out of 36 specs are “viable” at the highest level of Arena in WoW, then that’s just a testament to the fact that the pro players are extremely skilled and that the margin of error is super small.

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

The same discussions about what’s best, viable, meta, and so on, exist in GW2 just as they exist in WoW. Let’s not pretend that they don’t.

GW2 doesn’t have the same kind of PvP as WoW, so the class scrutiny isn’t as insane. Arena – which is basically small-scale deathmatch – emphasizes class balance way more than for example a Battleground setting with lots of players do.

I wouldn’t say that’s true. There’s always been a Meta in WoW PvP. If you go back to TBC, WotLK or Cata, then you had specs and comps that dominated just the same as today – and in many cases it’s the same specs and comps (hello RMX).

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Or it’s a testament to the ever-decreasing amount of risk/reward designs, and situational judgement calls, designed into the gameplay itself. You know, potato, potaato.

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first time jito has said something sensible, my god april 1st isn’t for another month and a half as well

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You are trying really hard to defend the bad game / class design :smiley: What you said there just doesn’t make any sense :smiley:

Look at the tournament. When pro players picked something that is not in top 6 specs, they had to hide behind pillar until 50% damp, and they still lost. It is sad to watch, and is proof of problem.

Blizzard is unable to balance even 11 classes, trying to do that with 36 specs is madness.

GW2 doesn’t have the same kind of PvP as WoW, so the class scrutiny isn’t as insane. Arena – which is basically small-scale deathmatch – emphasizes class balance way more than for example a Battleground setting with lots of players do.

World vs World is not even considered PVP in GW2 :wink:

There’s always been a Meta in WoW PvP. If you go back to TBC, WotLK or Cata, then you had specs and comps that dominated just the same as today – and in many cases it’s the same specs and comps (hello RMX).

Before Legion I was playing all 5 healing classes, and having fun. Ever since Legion I can play only 1 per season.

It’s not all about what is “Meta” for top 1% of players. I am casual, I play all healers in game plus 3-4 dps classes + 2 tanks. And past few expansions, the amount of classes / specs that I can play are narrowing down to the amount that makes game not pleasing.