Whats this all about?
Why?
For how long has this been a thing?
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It’s time gated as a warm up, rest opening next week:
This is very sad. Why m0 from CURRENT expansion are not avalaible and timegated? I can understand m+ but damn… m0? Pfff
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It is not even understandable for M+.
All the new expansion dungeons should be in M+ pool in Season 1. Then Blizzard can add old expansion dungeons in M+ in S2, S3 if it wants.
Putting SL dungeons already in S1 is just extremely lazy design.
And there is absolutely no reason that M0 dungeons shall follow M+ rotations.
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I wanna enjoy new content in game.
Not old one from ugly shadowlands.
Especially in s1.
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I do understand the mood, but I think it’s because M0 and especially M+2 are a much bigger jump above heroic than they used to be.
If we had people doing 8x TWW M0s, then trying to do the rotational M+ next week, there would be 4 dungeons containing absolute epic failures all around because they have a skill barrier, but many people are walking into them blind. Can only imagine the state of pugging 
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But its new content not old. I dont remember in previous exp like legion and bfa that absurdly timegating of mythics. After this was added m+ and mythics gear give minimal advantage to m+. Everyone was pretty motivated to learn new mechanics. That was awesome… spending days on NEW content. I remember when i learning with my time king rest on bfa. Today on stonevault my pug group slowly learning what to do lol. Was really funny and rewarding… after this i joined to necrotic wake m0 from sl and that easy brutal oneshoot. Ultra big pulls, easy bosses.
My point is just about m0. Just m0 from current exp. I dont have problem to s1 with old dungeons.
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Yes, Blizzard wants new people to learn old expansion dungeons M+, so it adds the S1 4 old dungeons on M0 level. But there is no reasons to restrict TWW dungeons.
All 8 TWW dungeons should have heroic and Mythic 0 level available for all seasons, same as all previous expansions. There is no reason to rotate Heroic and Mythic 0 difficulty of current expansion dungeons.
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In previous expansions we did not have the M+ squish.
An M0 is technically an M+10 from previous expansions. I don’t believe it difficulty wise, but technically its what Blizz said.
Blizzard has said this many times. And many people agree with blizzard (including myself).
It is preferable to rotate dungeons like this than to be stuck with the same dungeons over and over again for 2 years straight.
What you propose would be to have all 8 WW dungeons now, and then ZERO WW dungeons in S2 and S3. Which would suck. The alternative to your suggestion is 8 WW dungeons now, and SOME WW dungeons in S2 and S3. But then by definition you see the same dungeons twice in a row… Which also sucks… (now many months do I have to be in say… Dawnbreaker… to get bored of it).
I prefer what they do now. That way you have something new every single M+ season.
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That’s total BS. These m0 dungeons are just as easy as it’s ever been. I’m healing this expansion for the first time ever, and it’s so boring and easy. Barely any more difficult than heroics.
I agree with you.
I think Blizz decided to do a soft “cancel” of what they intended to do in DF with this M+ level squish.
But they haven’t said it publicly. And until they do there might be a massive difficulty spike in an M+2. Which would be bad.
So until I see the M+ difficulty, I am cautious to claim my “hypothesis” as true. For now, I take what blizz said at face value.
The difficulty of M0 has no impact on M+ dungeon rotation. What does M0 dungeon have to do with M+ dungeon pool?
Keeping TWW 8 dungeon always available in heroic & mythic difficulty in every season doesn’t affect M+ seasonal pool at all.
Why should heroic & mythic difficulty follow M+ rotation???
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Played a few yesterday and I gotta say I can see it being higher than M0s from previous expansions.
They’re not really hard but +10s were also really easy. What you gotta keep in mind is that M0s are missing 3 affixes and a timer. So ofc a M0 would feel easier than a +10 even if the scaling was the same.
So I can see an M0 having roughly the same mob scaling as a +10 from prev. expansions, it’s just that other modifiers such as affixes are missing. Plus you can take it really slow and go pack by pack because there is no timer.
Maybe it’s not exactly on the scaling of +10 but the scaling is notably higher than that of previous M0s I think. I remember M0s being around the same difficulty as heroics.
I think he means that he’d want to be able to play all 8 TWW dungeons on M0 difficulty but he’d be fine with 4 TWW and 4 old dungeons in the actual M+ rotation.
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You are correct in your comments. It was the case in previous expansions where “entry level M+” was literally M+1. So therefore, Heroic and M0 formed part of the “leveling experience”. Not the “end game experience”.
In DF they decided to change that.
M1 to M10 were to be replaced with : Heroic now is M0. And M0 would be replaced by M10. So ALL the “M+ entry level difficulties” of M+1 to M+10 were squished into a “new Heroic to M0” difficulties.
Which is what we have today. So if M0 is supposed to be the “M+1 of previous expansions”… then it makes ZERO sense that they have a different dungeon pool.
Makes sense ?
Better shadowlands that the abomination the is dragonflight.
Dunno… we will see…
First couple of dungeons people were a bit cautious about the size of the pulls…
By the 3rd or 4th dungeon tanks were pulling stuff as if it was a heroic : From boss to boss.
And we did not die … So I dont know… I dont remember doing 10s like that…
But I might be wrong. Dunno. We will see next week. 
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Haven’t seen that tbh. I mean I, as a Guardian druid, am literally unkillable during incarn anyways but whenever I was pulling more than 2 packs, the group was just dropping like crazy 
It was also depending on the dungeon though.
Did you play with a premade?
I don’t remember having a single mob channel a spell on a player that did 35 to 40% hp as damage per tick with it ticking once per second (trash in the last hallway in Grim Batol before the endboss) in previous +10s either. 
Maybe scaling is a bit weird. I can see huge pull in some instances and in other instances I can’t.
I never play with premade. I play with 1 buddy (DD). Pug the rest.
I tried to make my premade group 3 times in S3 of DF… but failed miserably for other reasons. Mainly : Homework keys. S4 of DF I took a vacation from WoW. And in S1 of WW im simply not in the mood to build another premade. Its too much work.
I simply found a good Prot Warrior that knew what he was doing. And I more or less managed my healing CDs for the damage.
That place is the exception. I was surprised the damage things did there compared to other dungeons.
Im a bit concerned that Grim Batol is a bit over tuned and will become the next VP of S1.
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Yup, I remember talking about this very topic with you.
Yeah prot warriors are pretty darn robust currently but as I’ve stated, the tank taking damage (me) wasn’t the issue in any dungeon. It was the rest of the party that got annihilated by aoe damage.
This could probably also just be attributed to not kicking/stopping enough and not dodging mechanics of course. Which is, for random people first experiencing a specific dungeon without a lot of prior m+ experience, to be expected.
Idk, it was just the first day of M0s and I’ll experiment a bit more with pull sizes the coming days. It’s not like I ever felt in danger of dying anyways but I won’t pull 4 packs if the rest of the party barely survives 2.
If I remember correctly, Grim Batol also already was one hardest dungeons back in Cata, when it was released.
It also got quite heavily reworked because it’s so old and I imagine it needs the most “fixing” because of that.
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You’ve had way better groups than me then 
I had so many wipes on bosses because people still think its HC and they can stand in every single mechanic, not interrupt or pull half the dungeon…
This may be the fault of HC or Normal dungeons being “too easy” as people are not used to just face tanking everything… But, previous expansions I basically just did M0 to get a key, and then never went back… Not wiped as many times in M0 as I did yesterday
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