So, while we're already discussing a GDKP ban

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
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For context, the post applies to the current situation on EU-Golemagg. Your mileage and experience may vary.

The recently diminished server population and the relative ease of both Trial of the Crusader and Icecrown Citadel at high buff levels has spawned (or rather, led to the resurgence of) “GBID” raids, in which- instead of all bids contributing to a communal pot as in a regular GDKP- all bids go wholly to the raidleader/organizer.

These raids most commonly take the form of “SR” pugs with crucial items like tier tokens restricted behind bidding (with a minimum bid imposed), and all optional items like BoEs, saronites/orbs, bloods, and shards either hard-reserved or again left to bid. Curiously (or, perhaps, obviously), the same people advertising host multiple such runs on a weekly basis.

Now, an experienced player can easily choose to avoid this kind of trade chat nonsense. If you’ve gone past the stage of acquiring gear and logs, you can find high quality SR pugs or GDKPs to your heart’s content, depending on your preferences.

The reason why I’m bringing this up is because these raids are essentially set up to rinse new and freshly dinked players who haven’t yet built up either of these things, and are hence unlikely to be admitted to a reasonable, higher-quality PUG that doesn’t resort to this type of nonsense.

I’m not here to argue about the merits or demerits of GDKPs at length, but at least there is theoretically some benefit for all involved by attending one. These GBID raids, however, are genuinely predatory in nature and they make the already unpleasant new player experience of transitioning from leveling into raiding even more irritating than it already is. One can pick between the currently dreadful RDF queue times or dropping a thousand on a Trophy of the Crusade. Splendid.

In the event that the relatively higher difficulty of Cataclysm raids doesn’t naturally put a stop to this, and regardless of whether a general ban on all GDKPs takes effect for the expansion, I would like to suggest that this specific type of behavior becomes bannable.

Community blacklists, if they are even operated by servers, can only go so far.

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Yeah, if they ever plan on banning/restricting GDKP in WotLK/Cata classic, they should indeed look into these kind of runs aswell. During P3, I went into a couple of these myself, and it’s very obvious the GBID organizers are interested in one thing only, and that is gold. It was actually hilarious at the end of P3 when people were already decked out, these leaders then only accepted people who promised they’d bid for a certain amount of items. If you couldn’t make that promise, no soup for you!

Some didn’t even attempt to raid lead, apart from gathering players and handing out loot.

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Unlike a GDKP, you arent “forced” to bid on items though. In gdkp you can get reprimanded for not bidding on even shlt items. There are alot of decent items you can get “for free” in a GBID raid, like trinkets for instance.

I dont mind GBID raids, beacause i dont need any of the stuff they usually HR. And seems like the majority of the playerbase seem to be of the same perception.

If there was nothing in it for the leader, im betting there wouldnt be much pugs around. The amount of frustration and agony you get from forming a pug raid is high:P So its kind of fair that the leader gets something in return i guess. Even in guilds, the leaders get something in return for hosting/leading raids (I.e prio on loot council for instance)

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In principle, yes. This is more an issue of intention than principle, though. A RL or organizer of a stable, quality SR pug or GDKP has a substantial effort involved in coordinating several runs a week, adjusting on the fly for no-shows, and many other things besides.

We’ve sort of collectively agreed that an organizer’s cut is fair recompense for that effort. I agree, hence why I make no comment on them at large. The standard is ~20%.

The types of raids I’m specifically referring to do not entail the same workload. Take this (https ://i. imgur .com/Cri6fiz.png) excerpt from trade chat on an average Golemagg evening. You’ve got these sorts of partial six-boss ICC runs “for alts” going around the clock taking anyone that breathes as long as they’ve got a buck to throw. Missing in this instance, but typically included, is ‘SFS buyr needed’. Typo included.

Can’t say I’ve ever seen an SR pug “need a buyer” before this trend exploded.

It’s a bastardization of both loot systems in a way that takes their benefit away from the raider; you do not share in the pot, and a large number of soft-reserves for the number of bosses done means any loot free to reserve will be hotly contested to the point it may have as well been a bog-standard MS>OS run.

I agree that the leader earns a cut no matter the situation; I think, however, that there is no justification for that cut to be 100%. I also think it sets a bad precedent and generally doesn’t positively contribute to the game. There were plenty of scrappy pugs going on in P2 that didn’t involve gouging people for loot.

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Ah, i think i misread or misunderstood then.

I do believe that this is a community made problem, if the majority didnt want this kinda raid then they wouldnt join them.

And some dont want tiers or the boes, and are just after X item at Y boss. Which makes joining full run seem less enjoyable if they only need an item after 4th boss (I.E DBW). This last part is just a theory though, i dont have evidence or statistics of any sort.

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I feel like even the high quality pugs at least hard reserve and sell legendary shards and BoE’s these days. When everyone’s doing it, people who otherwise wouldn’t also will.

I reckon that this type of run is both more degenerative to the overall game experience for most users and more exploitative then a typical 80/20 gdkp. Yes, in a 80/20 gdkp the raid leader also captures 20% of the pot for themselves, but the items being hard reserved are often more then that.

It used to be that it was acceptable for the leader to pick one of either boe’s, crafting materials, or legendary materials to hard reserve. These days it’s standard to reserve all three plus tokens or trinkets on gbid. It’s a degenerative effect across the playerbase that has turned the game into quite frankly a hypercapitalist hellscape for people.

That raid leader you see who doesn’t speak english, doesn’t participate in the raid at all besides filling it and collecting gold, and has 2-3 other raids filling at any one time and is afk on the one going, is doing this exactly for one reason. To collect gold to sell for real $.

I tend to agree, however, it’s even harder to enforce technically then a gdkp ban. They already can’t handle that, and recently laid off the last of their in house support, so any solution that requires dedicated human support to work is probably a non starter right now.

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You may not need the gbid items, but someone else maybe needs them, and they would SR the token if it wasnt gbid. So actually you have less chance to get an item you want.

Gbid should be straight up banneable. Also if they have a friend who just keeps up bidding its a win win. If you keep bidding → they win, if not they get eazy items.

I dont mind GDKP, at the start of a patch I dont mind leaders getting 20% cut cause they need to get a good comp, good players. But at the end of ICC now literally anyone is forming GDKP/gbid groups and if leading is bad they just hostile everyone and threaten to lose cut if you leave. It’s bad

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outside GDKP there are poor souls who want people bid for tokens in sr runs, so the leader can keep his gold for bad “raid leading”

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Paying for people is dumb and ruins the game, period.
Doesn’t really need much discussion.
The whole freaking game has become this “i must make gold” attitude, and its absolutely takes the fun out of the game.
Want to farm gold? Go ahead.
But charging people for loot is stupid and every person that does it are equally stupid and guilty of ruining the game.

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these vanilla purists rather see the game die just to fit their agenda, such dented take. you’re against botting/inflation not gdkps, stop mixing them togheter. sod banned gdkps and swiping is still just as common. imagine i was a ms>os purist and wanted SR banned because people leave after their SRs dont drop or start underperforming.

live and let live.

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Noone forcing you to join GDKP’s join SR/guild runs.There lots of people who enjoy gdkp runs, and you just want to take fun from them, for no actual reason, cz option for nongdkp is allways there.

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thats not why GDKP resurged :slight_smile: people need reason to run raids after they are bis or very close to bis build

the reason you are angry is you are not good enouhg player to be one of sellers :slight_smile:

dont envy others :slight_smile: git gud if you wanna be part of it.

there is plenty of 10/12 hc pugs going still :slight_smile:

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you dont though . find a nice cozy 10/12 hc pug and 0 gold there

but if you wanna 12/12 hc - well you can be one of sellers not buyers too if you have good enough parses .

without them - even without GDKP nobody would take you either.

i am part of some 12/12 hc discords because i got invited when the werent yet - they have like 40+ sign ups for raid nights when they are not GDKP .

without goodly logs / mets class you wouldnt get in either mate :smiley:

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If people are stupid enough to pay for this kind of trash then that’s up to them but it annoys me that they spam adverts all over trade & general channels when they should be limited to the LFG channel. Problem is that it leads to more token buying and Blizzard only see the $$$ signs so they don’t give a damn about the intergrity of the game.

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I prefer GDKPs instead of SR and especially Gbid.

But my rolls are cursed and I like to give my gold I receive to others

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you 2 are a great example of why it sucks.
thx dheads :wink:

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I am specifically commenting on 100%-cut-to-RL GBID runs doing two heroics picking up any old slob from trade chat, not GDKPs as a whole. I’m sure you understand the difference between this and a regular 12/12H 80/20 or 100% split GDKP.

It’s something akin to retail players paying for a Amirdrassil HC boost, except these runs are doing 1-2 heroic bosses in 30% buff ICC. Maybe that analogy explains it more clearly.

I’m not sure why you felt the need to bring up ICC parses to someone with 99s in the raid, but maybe you mistook me for someone from another server. I’m concerned about new players getting into the game now, not experienced or skilled players like me and you.

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