There is different opinions. I think, that no raid was fun in SOD. BFD was boring, Gnomeregain was terrible, melee dps was not able to get in raid, ppl asking logs to can get in PuG for 40 lvl trash raid, ST is bad too, nerfed 4 time in a row, because it was soo good designed. 10 man, 20 man, 40 man-it does not matter when community itself is bad.
Adding to that messed up balanse and weird content they made is what makes player quit. Most ppl expected it to be different.
Peace!
Its obv that the devs need to evaluate the three phases and take a look at their player base. I dont mind having 20 or 40 man raids with multiple raid nights if the majority of players enjoys that. I wont be participating and probably quit SoD but Im fine with that. For me personally 10 man raids that take 1-2 hours and are easily clearable with 1 major ability for a given boss are what I enjoy (and I have raided heavily when I was younger). So its more a task for the devs to sort out what their target audience is.
Currently they are mixing and matching and adjusting on so many levels that its not really a great fit for most of the players.
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Logs from our raid this week, At least 12 were PuGs, The 8 that are not Pugs are from a static team discord that i was running with throughout Gnomer.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wQBZ6aGdj2xfD7vW#type=damage-done&boss=-3&difficulty=0
A few wipes but mostly manageble.
You just need to do proper gear/Log checks and not invite just whoever that apply.
Way I look at they claimed these would be leveling raids, not progression end-game raids. A leveling raid has to be something you as a new player can jump into or as an old player bring an alt through. If the raid is very complex and has instakill mechanics then pugs are going to find it harder to do. If I can go into a leveling dungeon blind and succeed then I should be able to go into a raid with a brief 5 minute video that explains the mechanics and succeed as well. Without addons by the way.
Read what you’re responding to before you respond. Here:
It’s Classic PLUS. Classic with EXTRA things. Not Classic with things taken away.
Pineapple belongs on pizza
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To horny jail you go 
We agree to disagree. For me SoD is a game based on Classic world made for retail players in mind.
Classic is the journey, the easy tank’n’pank boss fights and loot pinatas.
SoD is rush to max, speedrun, parses and add complexity to raid bosses.
Devs switched the direction in p2. Propably due to lack of resources as they have been working on Cata instead.
P1 and 10 man loot pinata BFD / Ashenvale was pic SoD. It went downhill from there.
I understand many don’t like to admit it, but this is the way it is.
This is where you’re wrong.
First and foremost, parsing was a thing in Classic. It was HUGE in Classic.
Second, the bosses are more simple than some of the later Classic bosses. MC and BWL were mostly mechanicless, but the other raids had some.
The last boss of ST for example is just an easier version of Hakkar. Same fight, you just don’t have to deal with an add to handle the corrupted blood and you don’t have to deal with the threat resets on mind controls. If you can’t handle ST mechanics, you can’t handle ZG.
People did nothing but complain about Ashenvale, it was boring and meaningless.
I agree that it should have a classic feel in some regards, but to be honest 40 man raids are not where that comes from. 40 man are just pure trash. horrible loot distribution, no chance to get 40 good players so you can parse. There are no pros to 40 man raids they aren’t more complex in mechanics than 20-man or even 10-man. SOD is not classic/Vanilla wow. I don’t mind 20-man but think that should really be the max and the aim, especially with the reduced phase time.
It should focus on discovery, on people making new cool specs with new runes, finding new farming methods and then with raids with new harder mechanics, so that everyone if they play right can get their 99s. All while keeping gimmicky things like Skull of Impending Doom, logout skips, reset spots and mage AOE farming viable.
dear OP: No.
Yeah no. 10-mans sucked hard. Having my guild forced to split raid instead of all grouping up and going together was a major flaw of previous phases. Furthermore you can’t optimize your group for all the sought after buffs/debuffs with only 10 people in the raid. 20-mans are a good choice and I’m glad we’re going forward with them.
It’s evident from the discussion that there are differing opinions on the ideal raiding experience, with valid points raised for both smaller and larger raid group sizes. While some players enjoy the intimacy and coordination of 10-man raids, others appreciate the grandeur and scale of 20-man or even 40-man raids. Recognizing this diversity, it becomes crucial to explore options that cater to a broad range of player preferences.
In light of the various viewpoints shared, Blizzard should consider providing players with the option to choose their preferred raid group size, with the difficulty adjusted accordingly. This approach would allow players to tailor their raiding experience to their individual playstyles, schedules, and group dynamics. Those who prefer the challenge of smaller raids can opt for 10-man content, while those who enjoy the epic scale of larger raids can participate in 20-man or 40-man encounters.
Moreover, adjusting the difficulty of raids based on the chosen group size can ensure that the content remains engaging and challenging, regardless of the raid size selected. This flexibility would empower players to raid in a manner that best suits their preferences and circumstances, ultimately enhancing the overall raiding experience for the entire community.
I believe that implementing such a system would demonstrate Blizzard’s commitment to inclusivity and player choice, fostering a more positive and enjoyable raiding environment for all players.
ST was not well designed it was a long boring tedious raid. That the first time people were doing jt, it was taking 3-5 hours which is time people do not have, they have an hour or two max to complete the raid which is not fun
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I would love to see something like 10-20 flex raid system. Filling raid with pugs sometimes takes like an hour, even if you invite evryone without any requirments. Then you go in and first few people leaves after first wipe and then you are stuck in constantly finding replaces for people who leaves or just afks out.
20 mans have its charm, but its a fact thats its much harder and more time consuming to manage and assemble compared to 10man.
Would be intresting to see how much people raided bfd and gnomer compared to st, im willing to bet that numbers are much lower for st.
“it was nerfed 4 times in a row because it was soo well designed” I said that ironically. You are right it is not in place as P3 raid, and having alternative source for similar gear, asking pugs for logs etc makes it even less attractive.
I really hope the 10-man raids returns, and if not the main type of raid, then an alternative on par with a 20/40-man version. From a technical perspective, there really should not be a problem in moving all the current end-game raids to a 10/20 format, as most of them already had a 10-man version later on in WoW.
My main motivation for this is that a 10-man raid is just more fun for me. I have always enjoyed the cozy feel of playing with some close friends. I do not feel like the 20-man raids offer this.
I believe that focusing on 10-man raids (with a possible 20-man alternative) will not only set SoD aside from the other versions of WoW currently live but also make it much more successful. It would also allow for a lot more people to experience the new content. Otherwise, I think Cata with its 10-man alternatives for all raids will force more people to move there, which I think is sad, as I really enjoy the feel of classic where the world and discovery were much more in focus.
I don’t mind 20 - man raid but I can understand it being an issue for smaller guilds
I think I prefer 10 - man
more people = less social feeling for me and more just a bunch of random people logging in for gear
If they bring out 40 -man raids It will cull the player base
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