If it worked for the Horrific Visions, maybe the dungeons can get a scaled, solo mode?
Personally, I prefer to accomplish things on my own pace, and the only group content I am excited about is the PvP. So, more PvE content where I can challenge myself in relaxed atmosphere looks like a good idea to me. Maybe someone here thinks the same?
But the Last time I played M+ was the Legion, so I’d like to hear opinions of more experienced players about the possibility of implementing such an idea.
i like that idea, they could make a solo mode, and that would solve issues like playing with leavers who want to time it or leave if failed and the go go go mentality
player could play at his own pace, whether he wants to push the key or take it slow, the challenge should still be there and scales up the higher the key
Horrific Visions is a perfect example, i would say most players loved that design
One of the points of visions is so we have some way of gearing through challanging content without pugs screwing people over, or have your mistake be the only mistake to matter
If you add that to raid & dungeons you might as well make it a singleplayer game with offline mode
In other words : This is a MMO, the game is about teamwork
I don’t think they should ever make it possible to obtain the best gear in the game through solo play, it has always been obtained through teamwork
Im all for chalkenge modes for cosmetic items, toys, pets & mounts
You can solo dungeons, up to the level of your gear, and your skill - which for dungeons, often means several tries to find the right strategy for your spec.
Raegwyn, Mione, Rextroy have all in their time posted videos soloing some crazy stuff, including M+. ISTR Mione soloed an M+15 Vault in Legion on a DH, though it took like 12 hours.
But using solo dungeons as a gearing path, where you are rewarded for doing that, devalues doing dungeons in groups, and the Dungeon Lobby would be out chaining themselves to railings and swinging placards and chanting slogans.
Torgath in Shadowlands will be a solo dungeon-ish experience that will provide an unending gear path, without the timers of Visions.
(Incidentally, Orchi, I have zero idea why you think most players love Visions. I see them as popular only with a niche crowd, but since Blizzard have closed off the main way for sites to accumulate statistical data on achievements, we can’t know.)
you are right there
but people has to adapt to the state of the society, i would say most of the players nowadays tend to head towards games that offers instant gameplay without having to relay on groups and such in order to play the game
WoW didn’t offer that, and a group is a must for almost all none-LFR difficulty content, otherwise you will get bad experience
like right now in raids, you need a guild, in in order to join a good guild u need to use 3rd party websites, and in pugs people demand high requirement, mythic plus is a nightmare in a pugs
and having the feeling of “i need pre-made groups to play the game” isn’t really helping
why do you think blizzard started making solo content slowly starting form legion mage tower, and now horrific visions in BFA and torghast tower in Shadowlands
yes its an MMO i understand that, but the MMO industry is in a sorry state compared to others nowadays
I think challenging solo-content to get some titles/cosmetics is fine IF it is specifically designed for each individual spec.
Horrific Visions are a grand example why generic content opened the same for every spec is a total desaster for some specs in this game. Some specs outright SUFFER in Horrific Visions. They are not just weak but completely unfun to play, too.
If Blizzard would at least be honest enough to admit that these specs no longer have a place in their game and remove them - that would be fine with me! But to leave them in and PRETEND they are worth playing is just a BS move that, to put it plainly, i find INSULTING as a player.
Mage Tower was tuned for role (with the exception of Disc); that was not fair for every spec, either. Affliction Lock for example was WAY harder than MM Hunter. And for the Healers+Tanks the differences were even bigger. BUT it was “close enough” with the option to outgear them. Some specs were simply impossible for an average player without overgearing them and required total excellence to get them done - while others could be done by everybody who was physically able to move a mouse. That’s not “good”. It’s not “fair”. But as i said: Since there was the option to overgear them and still get the full reward, it was “good enough”.
Horrific Visions as solo-content are definetly NOT “good enough”. If there wasn’t the option for group play, some specs would simply be screwed. Even more so than they already are, because it hits exactly the same specs who are already weak in solo-outdoor-content.
So, if HV were solo content the weaker specs would not only be weaker in the content you need to play to get vessels to even get into the HV, no, they would then be weaker inside the HV…and because of that they would then have to play even more outdoor content to farm more vessels - which they suck at.
So they would be screwed THREEFOLD.
Call me biased, but i think getting screwed threefold is not good design.
And IF Blizzard would put in the effort to create content for 36 specs, that would mean so much workload that we would only get like 1 or 2 dungeons per expansion.
I do NOT think that this is a route worth exploring. I would argue it is the worst possible way to go with the game.
I like the idea, but at the same time this is an mmo, don;t really know how they could implement this without ruining the whole mmo thing.
BFA made the game more like Diablo than mmo i would say so, but can’t deny the fact it’s an MMO, or at least was
you are right, it was more like a guess by me, but ya we can’t really know for sure
if they start rewarding the best gear for solo content. you will all whine that you’re lonely and you want to play with people and not yourselves, bite the bullet, get out of your comfort zone and start looking for people to do m+ dungeons with. you already isolate yourself from the real world, you wanna isolate yourself from the game world too?
As the game was designed for team play AND solo play, and some main story now seems to be funnelling people towards doing dungeons it is a logical option, scaling from 1 upwards is a reasonable way to go.
well than go and play single player game , im tired of more and more fcking single player content also if u add that u must play visions if u want progress, if i want to play solo will go and play singleplayer game
Im just sharing my opinion and thoughts regarding to this post
if you don’t have any thoughts to give, don’t come and tell others what to play, and be kindly silent, sry to say
this is multi player and u want that game change like u want , well get out from here and play game where u have that what u want and stop cry that u want that and that and that u have tons of single player games , instead of changing this game and forcing ppl who already enjoy this game to leave game bcs for them will not be enyoable any more
Despite liking solo content, I think it’s a big problem that some classes/specs have a rather big advantage. While a DH can just breeze through Horrific Visions, mages might struggle a bit more (don’t even get me started on healers).
This creates a design problem where rolling a certain class is incentivized in order to boost throughput.
“So what if DHs are better solo? It’s part of class balance.”
Well no it’s really not actually. DH are good at solo content, but they are also good at group content. They are good single-target and AoE. There is no balance to be found.
Not to mention that certain class mechanics are disabled in some specific instances - ex. Boss’s being immune to CC/Snare, making it even harder for casters to kite and stay alive.
"Well why is it REALLY a problem that X class/spec has an advantage in this context?
Well 1) speed is an issue, many people were scared of falling behind the curve during Horrific Visions, caused by failed runs. Reason is that power leads to more power. That’s just how it works. You are now designing content that specificly favors class/spec instead of the player. Blizzard’s design philosophy has always been “bring the player, not the class”.
And 2) You are designing content exclusively for a limited set of classes/specs. That is unbalanced, unfair and a waste of resources. Not to mention that you seperate the community. Design content that are equal and available to all and bring people together. Not highlight our differences.
/edit Again I’d like to add that I like the option of doing solo content, but I don’t know how to solve this problem fairly.
This. Whatever about Balance in the Big Picture - the value of different specs against certain types of bosses, different flavours of trash, Arena, duels - when there is just one game in town, you can’t console yourself that at least your class is good at something else.
I dunno about DH, but I brought my Rogue into 8.3 deliberately to see what it’s like, and Oh. My. God.
I don’t kid myself that I’m a good player, but I do at least know mage. My Paladin has a vastly easier time of it than my mage, but that is to be expected. Paladins have more resources and are tankier, and that pays off in many situations. So it’s a familiar feeling for me; my Mage feels lighter, and my Paladin feels sturdier, and in Visions, that sturdiness wins in a landslide. I’ve played them both since I started, so it’s a familiar tradeoff.
But then last week I bought my Rogue in and … You have to understand that when it somes to Rogue I’m like: “Oh, this button is shining. I wonder what it is, and whether I should press it.” And yet, despite being undergeared even for the early Visions, my Rogue has so far just lolwhacked everything with neither effort nor danger. The difference Rogue >>> Paladin >>> Mage is just crazy. If they got rid of the phony lighting and got some music I want to listen to in there, I might even eventually enjoy Visions on my Rogue.
I love the idea and support it.
A lot of people when pugging just tend to ruin your day big time.
I stopped doing M+ for a while due to that and I’m really enjoying Visions instead.
This also has nothing to do with “Oh this is an MMO!” so…? There are other aspects where you hang around with people other than just teaming up and doing instanced content.
To me, MMORPG means that I see people in the open world, interact with them via trade, random talk that happens, roleplaying or just showing off on mounts and transmog.
That’s what MMORPG is for me, not being ‘shoved’ into an instanced place and forced into a group of people who are unreliable and toxic.
I want 5 man mythic+ version of raids
NOPE nothing.
I glad how it is now.