I agree that the community is responsible for the decline in pvp participation. The people on the high-end are farming normal players all day for a pay day. They don’t care they are killing the game at all. But Blizzard is at fault for allowing them to be in that position. They should change the game system. Personally I am done with LFG and I will no longer be using it. I am just queing randoms and with the occasional guildie i might do some rated. This leads to me playing way less, so much less that I am genuinely starting to stop caring:/
They should implement soloQ so people can play in an environment where you can avoid the boosters, boosted people and where your own skill and effort has meaning. In soloQ people would gravitate to their real mmr, instead of the constant manipulation by players right now.
Currently my options are:
Sitting in lfg for hours to play a couple of games. (done with that, no thx)
Play randoms and either be on the team that outgears or be on the team that is being outgeared. My interest in that is declining massively.
I fail to understand why you find it great then if you say it’s already in game aka skirmishes. I do not like skirmishes and there are many reasons for that.
Some people like to play rated but have no chance to do so, I mean let’s take you as example. You played 356 games in 2s on your mage, I assume that was early season climb, you got your 2,1k and you are not playing it anymore. You probably been gearing up and didn’t want to lose rating. You got 2 rogues, played over 400 games each, couldn’t even get to 1,8k and the question is: Why not?
In fact, you even dropped around 200 rating (to ~1,4k) in the past 4 days on one of your rogues.
Are you such a terrible rogue player or do you have nobody to play with?
People just want someone to play with and get gear, just as you at the season start. I got my 2,1k as well at the start of the season, with rdruid. Past that I couldn’t find anyone to play with, now I am playing feral and helping people to hit their 1,8k for gear.
Soloq (rated obviously) would allow me to find new people to play with on my cr, also I could just play for fun and get my rating up. And no, there is no other way, when I was looking for people to play on my cr, nobody on my cr wanted to play cause I was not a meta class. I got offered boosting and people with low cr but “high xp” from 10 years ago
Stop forcing social aspects on people, its 2021, that thing dosent fly anymore its not like we just discovered the internet and every1 and his mum is all social, thats why MMO are a boomer genre, no1 has time or feel like socializing, they just want to log in w/e game and play it with auto filled teams, thats why League and other games are so popular and before u start with herp derp “its a moba” its still an online game that is mainly focused at PVP the only pve aspect is AI…You have a friend list and you can que with them, but guess what people just use SOLOQUE
The vast majority of the guys i play/speak with are considering quitting within the next few weeks. Including most in my team who play at around 2.2 /2.3. It’s just too big of a pain to get replacements when someone cant come. On top of that you cant play when you want like in other pvp games.
Kinda agree. I guess I am considered boomer nowadays and I am for the soloq but not because I want to smash my face faster in my keyboard. It’s because kids these days are trash, I want to play with people on my lvl and if it turns out someone got boosted, I can just queue the next game and forget about it instead of sitting for hours in LFG
Im 31 so im basicaly a boomer also, all i want to do is loggin wow after work and play the game not sit in LFG then oh wait its late gtg to sleep, and basicaly pay the sub without playng.
well, it’s end-game content regardless. just like m+2 is end-game content even though it’s a triviality to complete; you are still playing in the same conditions as the rest of the end-game content there, because it is the same category
i don’t play RBG a lot, and i didn’t know the situation was that bad in that bracket. sure, there’s a problem that needs addressed there, i completely agree. though my discussion about solo queue was focused on arenas.
not really, the skirmishes now are not the same game as what they were in warlords and before. to make it simple, you could select the bracket to queue in (2vs2, 3vs3) and you could play with a healer in 2vs2 as well. essentially, you were playing with the same ruleset as rated arenas in skirms.
this is inaccurate; i reached 2.1 in 2s on this character approximately one month ago, 27th february to be accurate. the reason i did not play 2s again yet is very simple, i was busy getting honor points to upgrade my entire gear set. now that i’m pretty much done, i’ll gladly play again.
this is also inaccurate. one of these two rogues reached 1900 or so rating in 2s on week 2 of the season, and 1800 in 3s. then i decided to just play for fun with my friends and others. i have moved the character to a different realm, and so some trackers forget about the season high. https://imgur.com/GKZEvSa
i don’t like the way you talk to me, i have always shown respect to everyone here and i don’t get why you would be mean like that.
i have played with the friend i play 3s with right now, on his fresh priest that just got 60, with approximately 150 of item level – to help him cap! i do not wish to play rogue again this season as i do not enjoy it, and as such i only play it to help friends cap, for all i care, those characters could go down to 0cr and it would not make a difference to me.
to answer your questions, i do not think i am a good rogue player, especially at subtlety, and yeah, i do have people to play with.
it’s funny because, as my regulars have started playing less because they have an insane amount of work, i was in the situation where i could not find anyone to play with (that was not more than one week ago). do you want to know what i did ? i did a post on the forums, in the recruitment section, and a few days later i was playing 3s and got new friends!!!
that character (mage) was leveled to 60 mid season!!! i acquired 2.1k when my item level was 212, on the 27th feb. please stop making assumptions like that, when you could just ask respectfully.
my experience is different from yours, as i have stated. all it took from me was one post in the WoW forums. i do not diminish your (or anyone’s) experience here, i would never mean to do that, i simply state what happened to me. and from my experience, finding people to play with was actually not a big deal!!!
and with SoloQ this wouldn’t feel as bad because the default would be
queue
win or lose
queue again
the whole element of playing Tinder in LFG finding a person and trying to tie yourself down with them for an entire session is eliminated, you just queue, do your best, and queue again
So you basically don’t want soloq, you want to revert the skirmish changes. I mean we need skirmish changes overall so people can actually practice proper comps.
Ye, I didn’t check the date but the point stays, you basically climbed and stayed there to not drop rating and farm gear. I had the same issue, how did this issue appear? Because I knew I could drop and maybe not find anyone to play back to 2,1k. This fact we both experienced, actually proves the point how hard it is to find arena mates and why soloq is needed.
This is the data I got about your rogues: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/archimonde/caeth https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/argent-dawn/sa%C3%A8th
Both are <1,5k in 2s, is this correct?
Especially your rogue called Saèth, is another great example. If this rogue really was at 1,9k, you dropped below 1,5k and couldn’t gear up to ilvl 220 or recover, right? I assume you struggle to find decent mates on your level and this is the reason why you stopped playing on mage and decided to gear it first, because you knew it could happen the same, that happened to your rogue.
I am not mean nor do I try to be mean. That was a bit sarcastic for sure, I did not offend you nor did I try tho, I just stated obvious, fun facts
Same, a friend of mine leveld his holy priest, was healing for the first time, and I pushed him quick to 1,8k https://check-pvp.fr/eu/Tarren%20Mill/Kongb
Also, helping him in rbg a bit, kinda ironic how his stats on a class he can barely play has the best stats
Don’t get me wrong but for someone who is not enjoying the rogue, having 2 rogues and almost 1k games… sounds bit weird to me but ok. So if I understand correctly, you are one of those guys who plays with friends, basically like me.
And my issue is that my friends are not the best players but I still like to climb a bit and see if I can get higher than the average. The higher you go, the harder it is to find good people to play will, that’s normal. But if I decided to do that now, I would have to play with 1,8k people where half of them got boosted, this would be not the case with soloq tho.
Oh, ye I found your forum post, may I quote you?
You even confirmed my statement that you can’t find people and how bad LFG is This is exactly how many people feel and why they want soloq, you failed to find people in LFG with 226 ilvl and 2,1k cr in 2s. You’ve been desperate (your words) trying for the LAST TIME (your words again) on a forum because you couldn’t find mates to play with. Now imagine people don’t have ilvl 226 or don’t have 2k+ experience, what do you think are their chances to find someone?
Now that’s obviously a lie. How do I know that? I can tell by games played and by your own post where you said yourself how desperate you are and that it’s gonna be your last attempt to find people to play with
yes, this is precisely what i want with skirmish, i want them to be an useful and somewhat fun tool, not something that everyone dislikes.
this one was not, the one that was, used to be Saèth-Silvermoon, which became Caeth-Archimonde.
i simply decided not to try my luck with statistics and lose rating to both me and my rogue friend unnecessarily before we got done with the upgrades,both of us. now i hardly care, i’ll play with them as soon as they wish to. the matter of having difficulty finding people to play with is irrelevant here.
as i have stated; the moment i decided i did not want to play rogue anymore i leveled the mage and only played the rogue again to help my friends with their alts. i played these characters as i enjoyed the class… until i didn’t. i didn’t even finish gearing or upgrading renown on any of them. i was only playing rogue during BFA, which is why i have a second one, which was initially horde.
i play with anyone in the scope of having them become my friends and regulars, on the long term. that they are good or not is irrelevant to me because i make alts for this and play at whichever level they want to.
i have never, said once, that LFG was good. in fact, i believe i have always said that the group finder needs updates because my experience with it was not great. if i knew better, i would have made a post on the forums straight away, and saved me some trouble, yes!
the only time the group finder worked for me was with my mage when it had low item level as it just got to level 60. i could find anyone to play with to get conquest points at practically any time, even late at night.
have you ever had this experience in life, where you think something seems absurdly hard, but eventually turned out to be not such a big deal ? this was the kind of experience i had, i’m sorry for not wording it correctly. here’s the timeline : the dear friends (and my own brother Nenu) i usually play with have hard days at work or play other games and can’t or don’t want to play WoW; i thought after waiting some time in the group finder (because i wanted to play) that finding people to play with was an impossibly hard task; i create a post on the forums, mentioning how desperate i felt – at that time; about 5 players added me to battle net and offered me to play, which i did with 3 of them (and i will with the 2 others as soon as they wish to); this turned out to be not a huge deal in my case [we are here]. there is no lie about that.
if that last attempt did not work, i would certainly have a different opinion about it, for sure. this is what i meant when i said i don’t want to diminish anyone’s experience, when i say this wasn’t a big deal, i meant that it wasn’t a big deal FOR ME personally.
Didn’t you say you have a rogue for that? Actually even 2 rogues, so you don’t lose rating on your mage when you were gearing? I guess it’s not that irrelevant after all
That’s the point, people see soloq as a revamp of LFG. But I am curious, how would you make the current LFG system better?
Let’s make it more fun: You are not allowed to use tools which would be used for the soloq. (since soloq is bad for rated content)
I understand what you mean but it was obviously a big deal for you at some point, correct? You said YOU had no issues with low gear in LFG, many people say they do tho and you found people to play 3s around 1,8k while being max geared. This is an important criterion. Check some older low geared people on the recruitment forum, they are still low geared and low rated, wanna guess why?
Also, you have to admit you evidentially judge something too quick without actually trying it out. Once tried tho, you seem to absolutely change your opinion. What makes you think you are right about soloq? After few minutes of talking to you I can already name at least 3 things where you thought you were right/doing the right thing but it changed in the end.
if by “soloq” people mean a revamp of the LFG, then, i completely agree that it would be a great thing!
for a start, i would make skirmishes what they use to be. who knows, maybe i play some skirmishes, get matched with a friendly healer with whom i have good games there and decide to why not try rated with them after a few matches? it’s a very low cost fix that would make things a little better for every player.
for the LFG tool, well, i have expressed myself about it a few times, but i believe others compiled it much better than i could ever do here. to summarize, i’d like to be able to do something while i’m looking for a group (and not just world quests…), and i’d like some persistency with my announcements, if they could remain there when i’m logged off, a bit like a forum post. i’d also like something which lets me mark myself as a “i want to play” guy, with a little note attached to it, and group leaders from the group finders would be free to contact me through the tool to play with me.
i could think of other things i personally would like from the LFG tool, but in no way i claim they are sensible changes, or that it would be good design. i do not have any expertise in game design at all. i’m just playing the game.
by the way, i didn’t say “solo queue is bad for rated content”. my point is that it makes sense, from a design point of view, that rated pvp would be submitted to the same constraints as other end game content, such as mythic raiding and mythic keystones. as such, i do not think that it’s fair to expect to be able to participate in end-game content of PvP (rated arena) with one button while mythic raiding and mythic keystones would have an entirely different treatment, while there is essentially the same struggle there, which is in my sense a basic principle of a MMORPG (finding friends to play with, and it being a social experience above everything).
i probably express myself badly, but in no way i did mean to imply that “the concept of Solo Queue, is bad™, for World of Warcraft Arenas”
perhaps i do
i do not think i am ‘right’ about solo queue as i make no real judgement about it. i just wanted to discuss, as, to me, it makes sense that you are faced with the same challenge (finding a guild/team/community to play with) as the other end game activities with rated pvp. that it is a good thing, a bad thing, that it should change or not, is out of the scope of my discussion as i do not know which would be better for the game. i have never said “YES/NO, i DO / DO NOT WANT solo queue to be in the game, and i JUDGE solo queue to be good/bad for the game”.
Ye, I saw that suggestion in Stoopz video for the soloq. I mean it’s basically a forum post in game. This will not solve any issues tho imo. Gonna be the same people, the result is just gonna be delayed. The biggest issue is obviously not the fact that we don’t have soloq nor the LFG, it’s the community. The very first step would be to remove the “xp achievements”, literally reset it every second season, so people know what the real xp is.
In general I agree we need different skirmish options, so people can actually practice healer comps for 2s. Something like a check box where you can choose if you want to play vs heal comps in 2s or only dps or random.
But ye soloq is needed for many people, not everyone gets lucky with a forum post, that’s a fact. Yet people still want to play and have nobody. The LFG revamp sounds good in theory but it won’t work properly. Like if you have 5 matches to play with someone on day X at time Y, you log in and see these 5 matches. They probably playing with someone else already cause the other guy log’d in 5 min earlier. Technically I could elaborate why it’s not gonna change anything but everyone who used Tinder should actually understand it
With that being said, I do think we need an LFG revamp but so far I literally didn’t read any proper suggestion. I also wouldn’t know myself how to make LFG great again. The tool is simple and it is working, maybe adding some filters and that’s it but it will not change the community.
I really dont want to argue if its good or not or if its necessary or not. While I think it would help people to play more games for fun it wouldn’t help to keep players play the game.
3 comment from my side:
Lets be honest here. Your argument here is it would let people join to arena and enjoy the game. The sad reality is that noone wants just play the game. Most of the people join into arena because they want to win and climb. If you would able to win most of the games in solo Q you could do the same in lfg and probably swim in mates who want to play with you. Solo Q will discourge players even more to play this game.
“Its easier to find friends in Solo Q” I dont know about you but I’m a hunter main. Well lets say hunter is not the best spec in this game and Im not a top player either. But almost every second lfg session ends with a new friend on my friend list. Nobody wants to play with hunter (okay maybe BM is really good in 2s atm) and I still get friend requests.
Also my experience: I wrote an advetisement in LFG that hunter looking for friendly ferals to spam arenas I added 5 ferals on my friendlist in 20 min and they all above 2.2k exp some of them were above 2.5k exp. Now imagine that you play a meta spec and you are looking for a meta spec I think you would find more than 5 people in less time as I.
Maybe its you not the lfg: You always talk about that nobody wants to play with you but you just want to spam Q some games for fun. What IF you decline every Q because they are below your rating or ilvl expectations. Do you think solo Q will filter ilvl for you? If it would be a thing they would already implement it into skirmish or random bgs But they cant because the 20 minute Q time would be 40 minutes. So in 2s arena it would 5 to 10 min if you would add ilvl filter.
Im already on 2.1 But I just started to play with a guy without any arena experience (But top player in pve) because I liked his attitude. Try to find friends with same mindset dont look for same rating or same gear.
But even if you dont want to social its so easy to find partners even if you say them “man I dont look for friends I just want to Q as much as I can lets add eachother.” Im pretty sure you will find a lots of player for spamming Qs.
So again Im not against solo Q but it wont fix any problem with rated pvp.
You have another MMO that has been running with a soloq for years. Despite that its a smaller game, the number of active pvpers in that game is crazy compared to wow.
Let me ask you a few questions:
How many players do you know that play rated BGs or arenas on a daily basis?
How many players are doing rated pvp right now…when you logg in at 9 in the morning? Or even at 13.00 in the afternoon?
You and I are geared/have achs so for us its relatively easy. Did you try to find a group on a 200 ilvl alt recently?
If you look at xunamates activity tracker you’ll see the full story. The activity in PVP is insanely low. While xunamate only shows the higher end of the ladder it’s still a clear indication. If the most hardcore group is super inactive… what will the activity of casual players look like? During off days you’ll see only 30-40 players playing at 2200+ in RBGs. During peak days it goes up to 150. In entire eu.
Rated pvp turned into an activity which is only done by a very small niche group. And the ones that do it typically play once / twice a week.
Compare that to GW2. Right now at 9.00 in the morning i have 26 friends playing rated (solo/duoq) pvp. The vast majority being plat+/higher end players.
Wow is dead in terms of activity…and thats why the game needs soloq.
Hm… I agree there are arguments against soloq and I have no solution for those but I am also not a dev. You on the other hand, didn’t name a single argument against soloq. Literally everything you said is already happening, meanwhile the queue time argument is false, because obviously many people want the soloq and would return if it gets released.
This is a weird “argument” at best. I am rdruid main (was playing rshaman and hpala as well at some point until gearing became too time consuming) and play other specs as well now. I had around 35 people in the start of the season - mid season to play with, I literally couldn’t manage to play with some for weeks. Now I have only 2 people online, just because you had it easy to find a mate, it doesn’t mean it’s that easy for everyone. Just imagine doing content X trying to get somebody to know, with a good attitude, testing few games and see if it works… it doesn’t? Repeat. Now imagine you want to play 3s and you need to have same schedule… ye, not an issue at all
