so not treu right hands warrior dps cen ez out dps a lock some good tool kits relly cry and dps not too bad not best not worst sure if warrior good take it
Yeah itās really nice the Unholy doing 2 million more dps overall than the fury/monk. Is that your view of good balancing? Why do you think Unholy Dkās (Many) are doing +18-19 keys, and only one single Fury warrior doing +17-18 keys. U think thatās healthy?
Besides on that. You do realize that the top fury warriors only get taken most of the time because they are in groups with friends, because thereās literally 0 reason to bring a Fury warrior to the group iāll list it up here
Why bring other classes over fury warrior:
- More aoe (uncap) and not limited to 5 targets
- Many meta classes have same Single target dps so the prio damage is irrelevant
- Toolkit sucks and brings almost nothing to the table, even with reflect fury is behind.
and then you go into like +6 and ee unholy doing dps below tank because either tanks dont pull enough or people dont know how to press buttons and even with big pull do mediocre dps 
its always rng who you get into your groups unless you check parses of everyone in there.
If you seen an unholy doing less dps then the tank youāre doing something terribly wrong. I have watched all streamers now in the top end. And i tell you Unholy even on 5 targets does more damage. I have no idea what youāre smoking buddy
But its more complicated than that.
The current meta comp has:
- Chaos Brand : +3% magical damage.
- Mark of the wild: +3% damage.
- Intelect: +3% damage.
- PI
Unholy gets 2 of the 3 buffs. Plus all the utility it brings. This comp is notoriously bad with kicks. And Unholy is the one providing that.
However, the moment Unholy gets nerfed by 0.1%, another DD will take its place. Probably elemental, who WILL get the 3% intelect buff.
The problem with the Fury/Monk comp is that it dosent stack those buffs as well. Nor does it fit with PI as well.
AND, it has to compete with PWarrior as well. Because if you want higher DD and keep physical damage buffs might as well bring a PWarrior.
Dont forget:
Its not āmeta specsā. Its āmeta COMPSā. That is why even though Rets SLAP, they are not āmeta specā. Because they dont fit with the meta comp as well as unholy does.
Basically what I am trying to say is that target caps suck. And I agree that they should go because they remove the fun of M+. But it will NOT solve the āmeta compā issue. At ALL. If you want to address that you need to address raid buffs.
Fury is clearly alright, it can do the content 99% of players are doing, and it will do decent and only partly be carried. Especially if you value things and points I have pushed before.
But, it must be said. Even if Novix is pushing 17 range, he is only in that team and only playing Fury because that is āwhat they always have doneā. It is what they do. Fury Warrior is not there because it brings anything, it is there because Novix is the guy they play with and he play Fury.
They did bring Gillick to a 18, he did 3.1 million DPS overall. While Banshers and Wowtoxic did 4 million. On bosses Gillick did 1.4m, the other two 1.3m. While I wont say he didnt pull his weight, nor that this is a 100% datapoint. It does show that the Prio dam advantage Fury brings, perhaps, isnāt carrying the slack on AoE as much one would often think.
I do believe most would agree that Fury could use a bump in performance for M+. As prio-dam buffs would scuff the raid balance (and it is quite healthy), I would hope that even if Fury is āfineā that it will be allowed to regain some power for M+ through AoE CDs or changes to Meat Cleaver.
Here we got to ask ourselves. Are they able to push because of the extreme amounts of time invested and teamwork through thick and thin they have done. Or is it because the classes allow it. How big of the portion is an advantage bringing a Fury Warrior and how much is a handicap?
Question really is, Fury is pulling its weight or is it being carried in content where it is more of a hindrance thanks to its damage profile. Is Fury in their comp a squeeky rusty wheel that should be replaced for the good of the machine?
As long as UDK is doing negative ST, then this is fine. As the key isnāt about the overall DPS done at the end of the key. It is about completing the key efficently as a team.
If UDK does 4.5m overall, and Fury does 3.5m overall (closer to actual numbers in high keys) - you got to keep in mind that the overall done by the UDK is taken from the others in that group. Inflating perceived value. While the warrior Prio target is making sure when the DK has blown away the trash, that the lieutenants are dead too, so you can pull the next pack.
That aside, I already discussed this with examples at the top of this thread.
There are like 3-5 at the moment. Actually quite high for a non-meta option. But that is Fury Warriors for you - we stick with it and make it work, even if by making it work, we really are getting boosted 
This is core. Fun is alpha and omega. WoW is a video game and we play it for that reason.
Now, while I donāt want to see target caps go. I think it is important for the classes and specs that got them, also got some really impactful abilities to make things fun!
Being bottom DPS all the run is not fun. If your moment to shine is boss DPS, and you only do 10-15% more than the ones who did 200-400% of your AoE DPSā¦ that isnāt fun.
If your damage profile is flat and got nothing going for it, on top of being bottom feeder DPSā¦ that isnāt fun.
For fun, is the argument I hope everyone here will support and agree with. Fun is something we want to ourselves and those we play with to have. So lets tune down the āthings are mathematically fineā or ādata says 3% is playing, this is acceptableā. Just ask yourself, is the problem mentioned making the game more or less fun?
They just need to balance AoE Capped classes around said Cap, like my prior example of Enhancement during Season 1 of TWW was a perfect example of how they can balance a Spec that is Target Capped to still do meaningfull damage.
Its a bit more complicated than that. He said +6
In +6 uH does dog water damage.
For example Ret pala >>>UH dk in keys 2-7.
Its because you dont get to ramp up since mobs die way too fast. Litterally no competition agains a RET pala at lower to mid KEys.
NERF RET ASAP I GUESS.
Ramping for 10-15 sec , stacking 4-5 buffs, and not expecting to do big damage numbers when we finish is just insane.
Ill asume you are one of the DK haters that comes out of the woodwork when DK becomes viable for a patch. Getting all his info from youtube shorts and going crazy when he see a class(not his own) doing better.
Hating for the sake of hate.
Like when Frost got nerfed into oblivion but somehow enh shaman kept being stupid strong and still is while Frost is hot garbo now.(even THO THEY GAVE Frost and UH BIG +% on core ability and ENH wasnt even buffed)
None said anything about ENH but i guess they were glad FROST got gutted so they kept quiet.
Also current M+ pool features large packs close to each other so it kinda fits into UH aoe.
Here is the thing. You cant. Because there is a factor you are neglecting.
The damage profile of a spec depends on the spec itself (obviously) but also on the dungeon pool. In order to make target capped specs shine, you need to make dungeons that force you to pull smaller packs.
And if you do that, you remove all the fun from M+. Because every single pack will be 1 lieutenant basically. A ā5 man raidā of sorts. And I am sure tanks and healers do not appreciate that type of style.
You could also say: Well then target capped specs will do a ton of ST damage to get bosses down faster. That is also a possibility. But dont forget that Raiding also exists. And you cant have 1 spec do more damage than the rest just because its target capped.
So as you can see, its a catch 22 situation.
were being sarcastic blizzard couldnāt care less for other classes they nerfed shadow to the ground again then it went from rank 4 down to rank botton feeder i was being sarcastic.
So funny people thinking that the overall damage, is the only thing that actually matters in a key.
A friend of mine did a rokery 14, with everybody having > 4M dps before last boss. Couldnāt time time. Why? They didnāt have any ST burst to actually put the boss down, and eventually, someone did a mistake (the longer the fight, the bigger the chances are for someone to do a mistake).
I also joined a Rokery 14 on my arcane (capped spec). Even if the udh and shammy had 3.8, and I had 3.5, we were actually better timewise(until the tank disconnected). Why? Because even if I am capped, my main target melts down (things you donāt really see just looking at overall), which allowed for chain pulls.
Same thing in Priory 14. We ended up having a better timer with me at 3.5M, than he had with with 3dps at 3.9-4M.
And out of curiosity, I went with a fury in Priory 12. The knights didnāt even have a chance to cast something (which is known as the reason someone dies in that pull, overlapping the big aoe with some random pot shot/cast/shieldslam).
If you are looking only for overall damage, yea, itās purely your problem.
Fury warrior is not down because he lacks the numbers. He is down because any piece of utility he provides, there is someone doing it better.
Fury warr isnāt even the worst off. Outlaw Rogues are still capped at 8 targets, despite being a RNG dependent spec and a class with almost 0 utility. They are one of the least played classes in the game for the reason they have three dps specs but only have one viable for PVE (Assass) as the other is target capped.
And for the people saying they are hosting keys and still inviting people with these specs. You are a minority. My friend is a Rogue main, good gear and skilled, and never gets invited to PUGs or lower Mythic keys unless theyāre lucky. Outlaw is barely playable in raids due to dmg output. I play Fury and struggle for invs or when they see the spec, itās switch or kick.
neither did it target cap makes shadows ending talents as void weaver so bad.
https:// imgur. com/a/K62Mej2 ā the meme is born
Very true i agree. The worst right now is Fury warrior. U should see it.
Thatās how it is, there are metas. And know that this season the meta is very balanced, compared to season 1 sham ench we were way ahead of everyone else.
(btw the dk is bad in mono target) unlike other classes
Doesnāt matter when you burst up to 45m in aoe. Bring an arcane mage and the problem is solved. I am happy for my arcane brothers, but the balancing is a far cry from good.
- The game has always had metas (and the dk uh itās been a long time since weāve been s tiers
- There have been much more unbalanced metas. Just look at season 1 of TWW with ench shaman which was a god, whether in single target, dual target, or multi-target. (and he does 20% more dps than everyone else)
- the meta just needs to turn, the bomy and dp have been 2 seasons (s tiers). Iām not even talking about the mage who was meta almost every season if you watch all the seasons
Oh no, how could I not know this?
Doesnāt change the fact that itās still not good.
Boomy is meta the first time since shadowlands.
Disc priest is meta the 2nd time in their entire existence (2 seasons in a row is problematic).
so donāt act surprised
as said above, meta = no balancing (because not possible) You really have to understand that
yes indeed, and the mage that I said was meta almost all the seasons, unlike the impious dk (who was never s tiers in mm+ in high key)
In short, there are metas, it just has to change depending on the season and leave other specs/classes that have never (or almost never been god tiers) become s tiers