Some classes still target capped destroying the class for M+

Community General Discussion
83

I dont have an issue with Disc Priests being meta.

I have an issue with PRIESTS being meta all the time. Its either Holy, SP, or Disc.

And this happens 100% of the time every time ONE of the specs is marginally good. The only instances when there was no meta priest was when all 3 of the specs were really bad.

Because PI. Because of Mind Soothe. Because of MD… many reasons…

But its clear that in the utility department something has to change.

Same thing applies to mages by the way. And druids. Who have ALWAYS had 1 meta spec.

And this specific season, the REASON why Disc priest is meta is what concerns me. The shields are WAY to OP. And they always were, as a concept. Its not the first time Blizz tries to implement the “shield priest” gameplay. And they failed over and over again.

I mean… there is a reason why other healers either have super long CD on shields (like Cacoon), or have small shields. HPala used to have shields as part of his mastery, and that got gutted too.

There is a reason for that…

84

There is nothing to understand when i simply said:

So, moving the goalpost? You are a few years too late to educate me about a topic i know pretty much everything about.

85

There have always been stronger things, it has always existed, you’re new to the game to be surprised by that?
The shaman improved in S1, the SP in S3/S4, the DH in S2 DF, the mage almost above everyone else every season, the monk S2 SL, the hunt SV S3 SL, the hunt BM in BFA etc, there have always been stronger classes

In comparison, I find the upgraded shaman s1 tww was much stronger than the current DK, because he was strong everywhere.
the dk, in mono is bad, and if he does not make high key, and the team does not play around him, he does not perform very well
yes in aoe he is strong, but nothing surprising, especially taking into account that he was never meta and that the dungeons currently have a multitude of mobs

Similarly, bomy ,nobody talks about it , but he’s overwalled (of all dungeons, at the same level as the DK).

and it was meta much more than the dk uh

86

Okay, what is your point? Right now you only try to sound smart.

Never acted surprised. Don’t know where you get that from.

I literally pushed title keys on an off meta spec. I say it again: there is NOTHING you can teach me, because I am so much better than your average high m+ player.

Dh wasn’t meta in df s2…

S2 bfa: triple outlaw, double outlaw + ww.
S3 bfa: same
S4 bfa: fire mage, havoc, outlaw.
Bm was never meta because it struggled with surviving the highest keys.

Literally not the case. You don’t need to play around udk cds because the bloodbeast did a majority of its dmg.

Why are you still trying to educate me when half your information is wrong?

87

I agree .

or they should set the target cap for 12 targets or more .
even by logic it should be for something like 12 to 15 or 20 not less than that

88

Well done, so now you understand that there are much stronger meta classes each season.

and nothing will change that, it will always be the case, now and after. (because the game is not balanced, it can be yes more, but blizzard does not care (out of laziness or out of interest in seeing the players change, I do not know))

what i tried to tell you… don’t thank me

This spell is absurd anyway, it’s RNG.

But the DK needs setup and the tank needs to pull quickly, like the arcane mage who needs funnel for DPS. But I guess you know that too.

Anyway, DK uh will be good this season for most keys anyway, because almost all dungeons have big pulls (unlike Season 1, where there was Arakara and Stonyvolt, and that was pretty much it).

In short, let this spec be meta and hit the specs that are meta in overwall almost every season, like the mage, the bomy…

89

Boomy has been meta how many times? Shadowlands s1 and s2 and maybe s1 DF.

90

raider io historic doesn’t lie, bomy and meta almost every season, compared to dk uh (I remind you that it has never been meta/top tiers for high clefs in mm+), it’s factual you just have to look

You forgot so many seasons it’s funny, you make a very bad lawyer

he is currently the best mm+ dps in the game, ultra versatile, it was also the case in s1 tww, and so many other seasons

In short, the DK deserves its moment of glory and next season we all hope to no longer see mages, bomys and DKs, and to see for example monk tank/ evo heal / war dps for example

91

yes and make it consistent for everyone if youre going to have caps

92

Literally not the case. Boomy wasn’t meta until shadowlands. Popularity does not equal meta.

Please, enlighten me.

Currently? Yes. Historically? Not. Even. Close.

Bull…. Thanks for proving how clueless you are. Fdk, enhance and Aug dominated s1 tww. Boomy, frost mage and assa were close, but just couldn’t make it to meta status. Ele was strong too, but ultimately overshadowed by enhance.

1 Like
93

Can you link the data for that really interested to read that.

All DF seasons Boomy none meta
All SL seasons Boomy none meta
Tww season 1 boomy none meta

TWW s2 is first time in a very long while that boomy has been meta, i think you mistake “druid” being meta i could go back even longer and see that boomkin has not been meta on that many times.

https://raider.io/stats/mythic-plus-group-compositions?season=season-sl-3
94

Wasn’t boomy meta in s1 and s2? Convoke in s1 was busted, so was frenzy in s2. I might misremember it.

Edit: boomy was meta in s1 shadowlands but not in s2. Damn, so boomy is meta the 2nd time since the introduction of m+.

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95

I tried looking on rio but it only went back to s3 SL but i think s1 and 2 you are right as convoke was pretty OP but it kept swapping for some time with NF/Kyrian/Vent all being buffed and nerfed repeatedly.

96

Bomy was the best after the Ench Shaman in MM+. The synergy he brings to the team, plus the buff, plus the utilities, makes the class very strong (compared to other classes).

Only on Dawnbreaker did Rogue Assa overtake.
But yes, Bomy wasn’t far behind Rogue and Mage Frost, who were all Tiers in Season 1, but Bomy was still ahead.

Anyway, Raider IO Archive doesn’t lie.

historically it’s the mage, everyone knows that and currently yes, it’s the best dps, you’re right to remind him

https://raider.io/fr/mythic-plus-rankings/season-tww-2/all/world/leaderboards#role=all:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=15:maxMythicLevel=99

and you watched all the seasons on high key, you will see for yourself

False argument
If a class and meta are popular, it’s only logical (and WoW players love to copy players/sites without even thinking).
Look at the WW Monk from S2 SL, for example, ultra strong, ultra popular, and currently one of the least played specs.
Same goes for the DK UH; it wasn’t popular in S1 TWW and now it’s one of the most played specs.

The only exception is the ret (it’s strong, but it’s also strong in small keys, where the DK UH will be less effective, for example).

In high key at the end of the season, Bomy was more meta than Dkfrost or Rogue Assault. Stop lying.

Re-watch the Raider IO archives or the TGPs, the evidence is purely factual. Stop lying, it’s ridiculous.

(the specs you mentioned were all third parties btw, but less synergy and less effective overwall for the top keys)

you will agree with that I suppose

97

And yet Fdk was still preferred…

S1 BFA: Havoc + Assa, the third dps spot is shared between WW, BM, Ele and Boomkin. Hardly Meta
S2 BFA: double outlaw + BM / WW / Shadow
S3 BFA: Havoc + Outlaw paired with Fury, Shadow, Mage or Boomkin. Hardly Meta
S4 BFA: Havoc + Outlaw + Mage / BM

S1 SL: Mage + Boomkin + Rogue / Shaman. Finally Boomkin is Meta.
S2 SL: WW + Rogue + Mage. There are literally only 2 Boomkins.
S3 SL: SV + Destro + Mage / WW
S4 SL: Same

S1 DF: Almost everything was viable. So…can even call it “Meta”?
S2 DF: Mafe + Shadow + Aug
S3 DF: see S2
S4 DF: see S2

So…How is boomkin a dominant meta spec throughout all of m+? I simply cant see it :slight_smile:

Ret was the most popular spec during s3 and s4 DF. Yet it is not considered meta. False arguement hm?

TGP is not live server. Stop coping. Fdk, Frost mage, assa rogue, enhance and boomkin were all played in the highest keys, but boomkin was not meta. Enhance + mage + aug and fdk dominated S1. Stop lying, its getting annoying. raider io proves you wrong.

Get rid of the range meta + aug and I’m good.

98

I’ll clarify that I’m only talking about top players/meta players.

At the end of the season, it wasn’t the case for the very high keys, but I agree with you that a bad Dkfrost was better than a bad Bomy.

You mentioned SL S2 (where I also played a lot). I remember the Bomy and the fire mage very well, but 95% of the players were bad. But in the high keys, it was still top tier (if the group knew how to play).

I’m talking about the top level, which represents 0.1% of players. I want to clarify this point again, of course. (Before that, it’s not representative because the players don’t know how to master group synergy and class/dungeon skills.)

tgp TGP is the best representation of the meta class in high-key by the best players.

(In fact, every player on the ladder gets destroyed in TGP.) players currently on live who do not do the tgp and who push, do not participate, for ego reasons, or because it is not profitable (so they know they will lose)

There’s no point in arguing with you, despite all the factual evidence (archiveraider io/ tgp) you continue to lie. or are you in denial? In short, you’re making a fool of yourself and it’s a waste of time to argue with you.

It’s a shame you don’t seem like a stupid guy, but be at least a little pragmatic.

we agree on this point, the discussion above is ridiculous, the meta must change and more often, can’t wait to see wardps /war/monk tank meta, evo heal meta, the meta must change

99

You guys are still talking about the meta? Its pointless! There will always be a meta.

What matters is how far does this meta trickle down to lower key levels. And you can see this data straight away from Raider IO.

Boomie/DKs is not the only spec that provides AoE, and Arcane is not the only spec providing Funnel DPS.

The question is, those 3 together are how much more powerful than their counterparts? For example, a Ret does fantastic AoE, and is much tankier too. So why not replace Boomie for a Ret?

Well. Because a Ret does not benefit from 3% intelect from the mage, and/or 3% vers from MotW.

So. On paper. Replacing Ret with Boomie implies 6% less damage. Right there. Which is not “nothing”. Its quite a lot.

What does this show us? That raids buffs in small parties are a problem. They give too much power concentrated in too few specs. Like MotW with druids, PI/Fort with priests, ect… So the meta is pretty much pre-defined from the beginning.

So. Instead of talking about which spec is more OP than other, or which one was meta or not. How about you guys argue about the REAL elephant in the room:

The need to normalize raid buffs.

100

Sweetheart. Stop arguing. The front page doesn’t lie. Jesus Christ.

101

on SL combo of fire mage and venthry boomy was super meta on almost all tyranical weeks.

102

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