It’s still wrong. Attack power adds a fixed amount of damage per second, regardless of the weapon speed. You don’t use the weapon speed twice: either you divide the weapon damage by the speed to get the damage per second or you multiply the attack power by the speed to get the damage.
Not sure if this is your confusion, but high “speed” is actually a slow weapon. It’s listed in seconds per attack.
Ah yes, by “speed” I mean “slowness”, or time required per attack.
120/1.6 = 75 dps
130/2.5 = 52 dps
75 dps - 52 dps = 23 dps difference
Bow = 30.3 dps
Xbow = 2.6 dps
The difference between the expected 27.7 dps and the factual 23 dps, is
- extremes in damage (the average of the bow or crossbow is probably not 120 / 130
- armor
According to the formula the rogue psoted above about damage per shot
Regular: (41-70) + (1000 / 14 * 1.6) = (41-70) + (114) = 155-184 damage per autoshot.
The 1.6 in that formula is the weapon speed. Now if we want to calculate dps instead of damage per shot, we just take this and includes the weapon speed again (but in a different way where lower is better this time). Therefore the weapon speed number is used twice in the dps calculation
Yes, you divide by the speed.
(1000 / 14 * 1.6) / 1.6 = 1000/14
Speed disappears from the attack power part. You only use it once in either expression.
Well you just used the weapon speed number (1.6) twice. I understand the balance behind it, that’s not the confusing part, I’m saying it’s confusing because it differs so much from other games and might be hard to understand for new players as it’s not described in game that it works like that. That’s why I was shocked when my white lvl 3 crossbow hit harder than my bow.
Here’s the best step by step explanation I can give, using as few formulae as possible:
Let’s say you have two guns, each with a listed dps of 50. The first has a speed of 1, and the second has a speed of 2.
In order to achieve 50 dps, the first gun, which fires once every second, has to have an average damage per shot of 50.
The second gun, which fires once every 2 seconds, needs to have an average damage of 100 to get the same dps.
So a bad, slow weapon can still do more damage per shot than a fast, good weapon. It’s just that it’ll do it a lot less often. In the extreme case, a weapon with a speed of 10000 with a mere 1 damage per second would still do 10000 damage per shot… clearly powerful in its own way.
The attack power aspect then ties into this, because those dps values listed above are affected by your AP. If you have enough AP to gain an extra 100 dps, for example, then you’re not looking at 50 any more but rather 150. So gun 1 now does 150 damage per shot and gun 2 does 300.
Edit: and by the way “gun 3”, the joke weapon with 10000 speed, would do a whopping 1010000 damage per shot, with its shiny, boosted dps of 101.
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I’m not sure what you are trying to say, we already know the formulas
Your formula above is wrong, though.
Damage per second = (Weapon average damage per shot / Weapon speed) + bonus dps from AP
Bonus dps is not based on weapon speed, it’s just based on your AP.
So your final DPS still only uses speed once.
So what Riens wrote in post 4 is false? Are you sure, because it seems to match my in game results perfectly
I didn’t.
Attack power adds a fixed amount of DPS independent of the weapon speed. If you need to know your weapon’s DPS you add this amount to your weapon’s base DPS. If you want to calculate the damage per hit you multiply that DPS by the weapon speed.
You only “use the speed twice” if you deliberately obtain the weapon damage and use this value to calculate your DPS.
It’s like saying you need to use the age twice to know when you were born because your age is calculated as the current date minus your birthdate and then you subtract your age to get your birthdate.
I am not sure what game you’re comparing it to, but say you have on the item tooltip (description)
[Bow of Brilliant Lightning Quickness]
Damage: 90-110
Speed: 1.5
[Rumbleshot’s Big Beastie One-Shotter]
Damage: 170-180
Speed: 3.2
.
Then what that means is:
First weapon hits for approx 100 dmg every 1.5 second.
Second weapon hits for approx 175 dmg every 3.2 second.
So first weapon is superior
Knowing the damage of a weapon as opposed to damage per second, can be useful, as there are certain skills/abilities that scale with “weapon damage” which is the 90-110 number above, but generally speaking, the important one is DPS. i.e. just divide the damage number by the Speed, and that is how much damage your weapon will do every second on average.
Kyph can you please give me these two exact formulas as you see them
Damage per shot
Total DPS
That would solve our confusion I think
attack_damage = base_weapon_damage + speed(in seconds)*attack_power/14
weapon_dps = base_weapon_dps + attack_power/14
base_weapon_dps = base_weapon_damage / speed
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No, that’s probably correct (haven’t done the maths but it looks it).
The point is, he’s talking about damage per shot. If I give 500 extra dps to a weapon that has a speed of 2.5, I need to give it MORE extra damage PER SHOT than I do for a weapon with 1.6 speed.
Let’s say you have that 100 bonus dps I mentioned in my first post. To get an extra 100 dps out of a 1.6 speed weapon, you need to increase the average damage PER SHOT by 160. If you want to give 100 bonus dps to a weapon with 2.5 speed, you need to increase the damage PER SHOT by 250.
So your formula for PER SHOT damage is:
Damage = Weapon base damage + (Bonus dps from AP* Weapon Speed)
Which is not what my above formula describes - that describes damage PER SECOND.
Your damage per shot (not damage per second mind you) is this:
“Weapon Damage + (DPS from Ranged Attack Power X Weapon Speed)”
Then multiply the average of this damage with your Weapon Speed again for your total DPS
Example: You have enough Ranged Attack Power to increase your DPS by 50.
Bow 1 has an attackspeed of 1,8 seconds.
It will hit for “weapondamage” + 90 (1,8 X 50) each shot.
Bow 2 has an attackspeed of 3 seconds.
It will hit for “weapondamage” + 150 (3 X 50) each shot.
I already explained in my first post (that you’ve seem to ignore completely) why your 1,6 speed bow deals slightly less damage PER SHOT than your 2,5 speed crossbow, but it also deals way higher damage PER SECOND.
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I would like to give a quick hint to help you when levelling a new weapon skill, go to the Ironforge Deeprun Tram and kill rats in one area, they respawn almost as quickly as you kill them, you will get 60-65% of the max skill done there quickly.
Your damage per shot (not damage per second mind you) is this:
“Weapon Damage + (DPS from Ranged Attack Power X Weapon Speed)”Then multiply the average of this damage with your Weapon Speed again for your total DPS
That’s exactly what I’m saying, you use the weapon speed again to calculate dps, but some other players here say you don’t.
I already explained in my first post (that you’ve seem to ignore completely) why your 1,6 speed bow deals slightly less damage PER SHOT than your 2,5 speed crossbow, but it also deals way higher damage PER SECOND.
No I did not ignore that. I’ve understood why the crossbow dealt more damage per hit than the bow since the formula was posted in post 4.
He’s wrong, you divide and then it cancels.
Edit: consider the units. Speed is given in seconds. Damage is given in… well, damage. Damage per second is therefore damage divided by speed. Because per second literally means “divided by seconds”.