It is.
I level alts exclusively in TW dungeons and i am telling you first hand. You start as immortal tank who can to solo giant pulls and then you are becoming weaker and weaker. Near max level you are so weak that you have to blow all CDs for each small pull.
That is the reality of scaling and everyone should be aware of it.
Remember anniversary event and lvl 10 twinks which were not even tanks but fury warriors lol.
We’re all paying for this game to have fun at the end of the day. Wanting to play with experienced players isn’t exactly Elitism in that kind of environment.
Whilst I fully appreciate there are players who want to take the time to help newer players, that’s good. But there are players who just want to chill out and have a blast.
I’m not saying that scaling isn’t an issue. It most certainly is. But that’s not really the issue I was getting at.
It’s exactly what it is. Pugs are random - thats what you’re signing up for. If you’re legit kicking people because they aren’t “blasting” TW’s then you’re a selfish douche.
Is it some kind of main character syndrome where you’re the only person that matters and everyone else is an npc for your convenience?
The initiator and the player being initiated should both be up for voting.
The other 3 players vote on who stays in the group.
Well I guess if the majority of the group agrees that a player isn’t pull their weight, then that’s not being selfish.
As I say, we’re all here to play and enjoy a game, and I guess it’s down to the majority to decide whether a player is holding the team back or not.
My suggestion just make the gaming experience better for everyone. You can call people names as much as you like, but the problem exists and will continue to exist. What would be better than name calling, is coming up with solutions.
And further more, wouldn’t you want to keep new players away from people you think are selfish douches? It’s a win for everyone.
Or you could just not be a selfish douche and then the playerbase doesn’t have to be segregated.
By that you mean better for you? And new players could benefit from all your years of experience, friendly disposition and sage advice /s.
As I said, name calling isn’t going to solve anything other than make yourself look bad.
I have offered a solution to make the game enjoyable for everyone.
If I wanted to teach and guide new players, then I would do. But I don’t play WoW for that. I play WoW for an on going adventure and to chill out. If others want to guide new players, that is fine. Give people the option to opt in and opt out of that.
People want different things, and it’s clear that is the case when these discussion come up. They just need to cater to both needs in this case.
A newcomer who has an “experienced” go-go-go-er in their group isn’t going to learn anyway… not to mention they risk getting removed because they can’t keep up and also receive a 30min deserter debuff.
Let’s suppose Blizzard implements a “speed” lane for those like the OP. What will happen? The vast majority will flock to it. Those who would not will experience extremely long queues. So as a solution, it’s not going to help, it’s going to make it worse.
My suggestion would instead be enforced downtime / slowness in both every Normal dungeon and every Timewalking dungeon. Big arrows pointing the way, and mandatory stops of a few seconds at least once in-between bosses and after every boss. The stops could be implemented similar to those in Delves, which do not allow a player/group to progress in some areas unless they complete a task in the current area.
Well I keep getting told that it’s the minority of players that want to speed through content, and that I’m the bad guy for not slowing down…
so surely the fast lane will be the long queues?
This would just kill the game mode for many people.
At least in TW where people just want to get their weekly done on as many alts as possible.
No, the majority wants the speed lane, because the majority is not Newcomers. Which in turn means that the Newcomers will not be able to find people to fill their groups with. Meanwhile those on the “fast” lane will just have longer queues exactly because those who don’t want to be in the “fast” lane will not be joining it.
I don’t have any proof or source, but I’d say the people who want speedruns vs those who don’t are around 80-20 split.
How would it kill it? How would needing an extra 15minutes per week kill the mode?
Maybe they shouldn’t do it on all their alts then, but only on as many as they have time.
I guess we can only speculate really.
Yes, I agree most will initially go for the speed lane. But then like “OP”, who is an experienced player but wants a slowed down experience, will opt out of the speed lane when people go fast.
I’m sure it would balance itself out.
Because people like to get through this content as quickly as possible and get onto the real game.
Even people I know who hate M+, like to push through TW as quickly as possible to get their weekly done on all of their alts. People like to get to the end quickly.
You slow that down, and people will not do it.
There’s a reason why I don’t do WoD TW, because it’s slow and boring.
And who are you to tell people how they play the game?
It’s a chance at a piece of normal raid loot (or heroic later in the season). Why should they miss out on that?
I like to do it because of the chance of unlocking some transmog I don’t have yet.
If one has to do something to get to the real game, then that something is part of the real game.
Some will not. Not enough of a loss really for the mode. Maybe it would become more beginner-friendly after all!
I’m merely throwing suggestions. I even bulleted out compensation for the lost time.
It literally takes around 40-50 minutes per character including time waiting in queue. At most you need to do it on 4-5 characters. Everything after that is superfluous or NEET territory.
Getting a piece of Normal raid loot on a character that never leaves the city premises except for TW or Delves is not “missing out” on anything.
Wait what? So your expectations are not on you and everyone who does not agree with the way you want to play and dares to say anything against that is toxic?
Btw the dungeon finder was literally implemented for quick group search and gameplay.
Did it cross your mind that it’s players like you? This kind of mentality did not exist back in the days. People who wanted to go slow were fully aware of what they want and formed own groups.
You now don’t want to do that, use the “click&play” tool but want to enforce your own rules to people who want just to… well… click and play…
I used to help players in lower content. I always geared myself up, got myself some xp and shared it with people. That was basically my endgame content, helping people. Healing and tanking dungeons where your casual, average healer/tank gave up already.
Now we have entitled people who just waste other people’s time, refuse to learn and have no manners at all.
And if you take a closer look, the most toxic people appear mostly in the lower content. Guess why that is.
I guess. After I made that post, I thought about it this way:
Each week we have a check list of things to complete. One of those things that comes around is complete 5 weekly Timewalking Dungeons to get a Normal Raid loot, before they move onto the next check which is 8 M+, or 4 T11 Delves.
To some people just one of those checks is a weekends worth of play time. To another player, it’s a quick job before moving into the next thing and might be completed multiple times in a day.
Or why not give people an option of choosing the experience level of players they queue with, and then everyone gets a good experience. Why are you exclude players from enjoy the content just because they want to do it quickly?
Yes, I did see that. But still, if you slow down people who want to go fast, 1 of 2 things will happen, 1) they’ll get frustrated or 2) they’ll work out a way to go fast.
Some people like to make sure they have all bases covered. Some people don’t like to raid at all.
Either way, there is almost free loot there, why would you leave it?
If you want to blame anyone, you have to blame both sides. Real “click and play” people don’t care at all if it goes slow or fast. They just want to play.
And who defines who are the “real click&play people”?
If I click and play, I don’t want to pull one mob at a time… so it’s me again who plays wrong? Why is it always “the other side” that defines the right play while refusing to sit down, take their time and form a chill group to go slow?
If you want to zoom zoom at warp speed why not make a group to do that? This logic works both ways.
Well, it’s faster to just Queue and blast than it is to make a group to do the same.
In the Loks idea, he suggests since the slower player wants to take their time, then why not take the time to make a group as well.
I don’t necessary agree with his approach 100%, but it makes a fair point.
Because click&play is the way to do that. We all know that over the years it was established like that. Most people don’t join, have a chat and chill (not saying that never happens)… they just do their weekly.
But the question is: Why taking this shortcut if someone wants the exact opposite?
And we all know why. They want the benefits of the “gogogo mentality” but force others to play like they want.
As Hellohi says, if you have that time and want to chill, take this time you have and find equal minded players, if there are apparently so many of them. People who got no time, go for the click&play, that’s what it’s here for, no?
No, where does it say thats what its for? Who is to say its not for people wanting a social experience and a bit of fun?
It comes back to this.
You’re saying click and play only means what I say it means, not what you say it means.
These examples are never indicative anyway. Probably 90% of runs fall into those where both groups can co-exist without friction. The 10% where a really slow person meets a super gogo mentality person isn’t the end of the world.