MW is in a strange spot currently where we have very high throughput in any content, yet we are using very different builds in PvP and PvE. (Fistweaving for PvE and casting ‘Mistweaving’ for PvP).
It seems to be the case that MW is struggling to be represented in PvP, sometimes it seems to lack some of the defensives and pressure of other healers, while I appreciate a spec that feels different to others I think it’s clear, some small changes could go a long way here.
All the while, in PvE we again have top tier HPS and reasonable DPS, again not used (in 9.1 ) for progression typically given strengths of other healers.
To me, any hypothetical changes I can think of I find myself considering how it would be too strong for the other side of content. I believe currently Blizzard has approached with spells acting slightly differently in PvP than in PvE, be it mana costs etc. I feel for anyone new coming to MW this feels very strange. (How would they know this were the case)
Is it time for Monk to have Fistweaving split into a different spec rather than Monk having this strange sub-spec issue?
I’m not arguing one way or the other, but thought it’s something that maybe people have a position that might help explain why / why not this would/n’t work. My initial feeling is that it might allow for Blizzard to better commit to playstyles for each rather than having to try and somehow balance a single spec as if it were two.
Yeah and if you split you will have a spec that is not viable in one case and another that is not viable in another case.
That’s PvE vs PvP, not Fistweaver vs Mistweaver tho.
It is not a subspec. The spec is designed such that you get into and back out of the fray. You are not supposed to constantly stay 40 yards away. If anything they should make Rising Mist baseline and - for the love of god - finally remove or at least rework Essence Font. Spending 1/3 of the time in combat on casting Essence Font feels awful.
Well, that’s what I’m getting at. As it stands fistweaving is not viable in PvP and ‘Mistweaving casting’ is not viable in PvE. But perhaps committing to that was the thought. In the same way, previously some classes have ‘pvp dps spec’ and ‘pve dps spec’ where one was more viable than the other. To be clear I’m not making the case that they should be viable in either spec but just highlighting that we’re already in the situation you describe.
I suppose that’s my point, those are synonymous. Fistweaver = PvE and Mistweaver = PvP. It’s not viable to swap them, yet balance tuning has to be done to account for both so might it not be easier to commit to that design and split them out and then further entrench the aspects of the different styles.
I agree with your point about EF and RM, but both of these only really affect the current Fistweaving style. Mistweaving in PvE just can’t compete. Again, I’m not advocating for one style over the other, I really like both styles, I just feel they are missing that je ne sais quoi
Perhaps I’ve misunderstood you, but it sounds like you’re arguing for a spec that has the two styles merged? This could be another alternative to make both Fistweaving + Mistweaving (and the MW spec overall) feel great.
I just don’t see it as 2 subspecs/playstyles. When you can do dmg, you should be in melee doing dmg. Even if you want to be a caster, you’re going to extend Renewing Mist to heal via its cleave or Essence Font to have a higher uptime on those sweet double mastery procs with Rising Sun Kicks. Even running Ancient Teachings of the Monastery won’t let you heal via dpsing 100% of the time. You’ll find situation where there’s nothing to hit, you need to keep distance or you just really need to heal a specific person (since ATotM targets a random injured nearby ally).
I’m no way a pvp expert, but I’d think that you generally don’t spend much time in melee as a healer in pvp. Even holy palas hug their pillar and those can at least bubble/BoP and use their defensive while being stunned.
Ah okay, fair enough then I suppose that’s also another opinion that you don’t see as much of a difference as I do, which is fair.
Yep absolutely, realistically you’re not going to be going into melee, hence why it’s not viable. But there’s more to it than that as with fistweaving you don’t have much agency over who you heal which is pretty important in PvP. Thanks for your input, I’m keen to see what other opinions there are on the topic from others.