[SPOILERS] Shadowlands and its implications for RP

Argent Dawn
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This thread is not about who can and cannot go into and out of the Shadowlands/the Maw. The lore is the lore, it is what it is and we cannot change that. The portal is there and discussed by NPCs whether we want it or not.

So, to preface, I really like Shadowlands from a gameplay perspective. I like many of the changes made, the weapons and armour look good, the zones are for the most part pretty.

What really annoys me are the implications this expansion will have for RP - no character can really escape it. Setting aside the fact that I think the whole Maw stuff is needlessly dark and edgy (just a personal opinion though), and that I would have been much happier if the afterlife had stayed a place largely unknown rather than becoming something we can just visit at will, my biggest issue is what it means for RP as a whole.

Think about it. Doesn’t the knowledge of the afterlife heavily reduce the impact and feeling of importance in the mortal world? Why would a grunt and footman feel the same loathing for each other when they know that, in a few decades at most, they will end up becoming buddies in Maldraxxus for an eternity? How will your noble, merciful paladin character - who only fights when it is just and delivers a painless death when it is the last resort - work with the knowledge that everyone you kill will be going to ultrahell forever to feed the BBEG?

Let alone the implications on religious characters. The knowledge that Uther went to Bastion rather than an afterlife of the Light will change everything about how Light-focused characters view their religion. Let alone everyone else!

This isn’t like Draenor where it was just a sidetrack that we dealt with and closed off with few loose ends. This is the afterlife. This will change RP fundamentally. Every character who learns of the Shadowlands IC - which may be few at first, but news of something like this will spread like wildfire - will have their motivations, their fundamental view on reality shaken, as they start to look at their brief mortal life now in the perspective of the eternal afterlife now also being something clearly defined (and indeed something they can visit at will).

Let alone the sheer discord that will follow. People paying mages to put their elderly parents into stasis to save them from the Maw, the fundamental prospect of fighting anything entirely changing as you risk not only condemning your enemies (acceptable to some characters) but also your friends (acceptable to significantly fewer characters) to ultrahell in the process. People travelling and meticulously mapping out the nature of the Shadowlands, because of course any sane person would want to know as much as possible about the place they are to spend an eternity in (and then spread that knowledge to everyone else).

I know some people will like this, as it undeniably shakes things up, and I can understand why that is appealing. But this feels too big. It’s just not what I thought I was getting when I signed up, you know?

What do you think about it all?

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It’s a fairly large issue with implications that Blizzard will refuse to explore. The shakeup of major religions, the despair of EVERYONE who dies going to the Maw (super depressing for Anduin’s butler) and the philosophical complications of waging the Forever War across Azeroth knowing that one stray arrow or moment’s hesitation in battle means your eternal suffering is far too complicated for the narrative. Is that one hill really worth it now?

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But they don’t know that. Being an orc doesn’t instantly mean you’re going to Maldraxxus (Steve Danuser references the orcish ancestral plane recently in an interview, stating it’s where Durotan is hunting in the eternal planes waiting for his wife) and more than just warrior guys end up there if their nature of character matches that of the ideals that Maldraxxus stands for. Alexandros is a prime example of a Paladin who thought his faithful service would take him to the Light, only to end up in Maldraxxus and having to adapt to his new reality and coming to accept it.

Also placement in Maldraxxus - or any other afterlife - is not final. Alexandros is offered the chance to become a Kyrian during the storyline since Renault’s betrayal weighs heavily on his soul, he rejects it when he discovers that his real source of strength is his undying love for his Darion and his wife and that becoming a Kyrian would deny him those memories. Danuser hinted that once Draka’s purpose in Maldraxxus is done, she’ll rejoin Durotan in the ancestral realm.

And I doubt the average Joe is instantly going to upload the knowledge of the finer inner workings of the Shadowlands to their brain from the patch notes, so not much to worry about other than the immediate threat of a new Scourge invasion and the hole in the sky that they don’t truly know the implications of yet.

and

Sounds like good opportunity for character development if you ask me. Knowing your actions have consequences for the soul of the victim, are you more eager to kill them in light of your moralistic and merciful world view? And discovering that you’re not bound to the Light can change things - or you might even just interpret that Bastion is the Light with its angelic aesthetic.

I think that getting hung up on things like “Oh no, my character can’t kill anymore because they’re morally good person and dead souls go to the Maw” is kind of missing the potential for character growth where your character has to examine their world view. Is it right to kill them, knowing they go to the Maw now? Or will they do it anyway and how will they justify it to themselves?

I understand the appeal in laid back casual RP without much stakes in it, but that kind of RP rarely overlaps with the kind of decision making that leads to a character fleshing out their morals in light of the news of what happens to their victims’ souls. If you don’t go to the Shadowlands, you won’t know about it.

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Also, that poor lady who killed herself in despair after we returned her husband’s locket from the broken shore is in the maw, too. Her story just keeps getting worse.

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  1. I don’t see the problem with the portal as majority of Roleplayers will not head into Shadowlands ever, and with the overall story that the Scourge seems to still be active around Azeroth while we are in Shadowlands there are plenty of reason for non-adventurers to remain behind on Azeroth.

  2. As for the whole changing the foundation of core believes I think it wont really matter much for the main reasons following.

Fullout denial because they have not actually experiencing it themselves as seen with Church of the Holy Light and their leader literally denying his involvement with Deathwing to spread the Light’s influence.

Since Blizzard confirmed there are infinite realms within the Shadowlands and we only encounter those ‘‘made to keep the machinery of death functional’’ I think it wont really change much since it is just a small part of the world we actually get to see.

Final thoughts: I think mainly undead/death themed characters will be roleplaying within Shadowlands for most parts so in the end I honestly doubt much will change with this being added.

If you look at Draenor I barely encountered roleplay there outside organized events mainly because most of the people never felt like it made since to venture there, even though it made more sense for a less heroic adventurer to go to Draenor above Shadowlands.

I remain careful with my judgement until we encounter more of the lore coming from the expansion that may affect us more than what we have seen so far.

Edit: In the end majority of characters wont go to the Shadowlands and denying the things hearing about it isn’t far fetched due to how the different magical ways work in Azeroth so I doubt a Paladin hearing about Uther being in Bastion and not ‘‘Light Heaven’’ likely will be treated as a false lie and it being denied.

Majority of roleplayers roleplay in such position that they wont likely experience/learn/know about the events taking place in Shadowlands so it wont be a big deal.

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In the end I still don’t like it… Because as mentioned by OP it is big, it’s something nearly impossible to ignore.

The very reason why some characters fight is their inherent belief of their afterlives being a better place, a reward for how they lived their lives (I mean if we were to take an IRL example is people saying “Better dead than red!” because they believes there’s a hereafter for standing up to the great evil).

I’d prefer if people ignored the Shadowlands, I truly do, barely mentioning it in the same vein as WoD but never acknowledging its events… It kinda removes every motivation from someone to take their current lives seriously knowing that they will have a second one… It’s essentially a road to ubber nihilism “Why should I care about how I live this life?” because it seems that even the most evil of souls doesn’t go straight to the Maw and all get a chance in Revendreth to atone for it (Once we ultimately fix the machine of death.) it removes any accountability from character flaw. Sloth, Cruelty, Pride (Shaohao must feel dumb), Genocides, Enslavement… If you have knowledge of the Shadowlands none of that will matter.

If it becomes a widespread information… Hilariously enough it might be the reason for Azerothians not to kill each other anymore… But that’s not how it goes.

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The Maw broke after Emerald Nightmare raid. Grief-stricken suicide lady whose husband died in the initial invasion of the Broken Shore is fine.

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Was that confirmed? I thought they hadn’t said exactly what it broke or why yet, just “during Legion”.

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nooooo!!! you can’t just ignore the shadowlands!!!

haha killing the horde goes brr brr

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Ursoc died in Emerald Nightmare and still went to Ardenweald. Ysera died just before the raid and she was said to be “one of the last batch” before it broke.

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I just kinda assumed that Elune interfered honestly, but that makes sense.

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Until Blizzard decides that Ursoc and Ysera were “special cases” or had gotten a VIP pass to the Shadowlands getting through the bouncer Xoval.

Consistency bla bla, hands of writers bla bla.

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We still don’t know the exact cause, but we can rule out Sylvanas and Helya since their deal happens during the questing experience, but everything’s still working by the time of the EN raid. Whatever the cut off point is happened after that raid.

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Just Anduin’s butler, then. RIP Wyll and Elsie. At least you get to suffer together.

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lowkey hope anduin’s story in shadowlands involves saving them instead of doing some super grandiose and plot important stuff.

it’s fine for characters to focus on these small personal side stories every once in a while and take a backseat tbh

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I think this is actually a good thing because it leads to two different outcomes.

  1. A paladin/priest of the Light may abandon their believes due to the news of this.

  2. The same paladin/priest denies anything related to Shadowlands and continue to propaganda about the light.

In the end it is confirmed that we are only encountering a tiny tiny tiny part of the Shadowlands which have a purpose in the machinery, not being the actual ‘‘rewarded heaven’’ as some other places going to be.

What better way of punishing your enemies than knowing they are sent to literally hell when being killed? Profit from the situation and kill off as many as possible!

As seen by the cinematic about Ardenweald is that the drought seem to occur some time later after Ursoc’s arrival.

So while it ‘‘broke’’ shortly after Emerald Nightmare it may have taken some time for the ‘‘breaking’’ to affect the zones.

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How on earth is ‘it’s fine, just ignore this obvious thing right in front of you’ a good thing?

There’s a portal to SL in the capitals. It’s even spoken of by NPCs. This isn’t something vague and distant, if you are unsure or sceptical you can just walk in and look for yourself.

What about people who like the paladin/priest theme or community and don’t enjoy having to choose between your options of giving it up or becoming WoW’s equivalent of a facebook flat-earther?

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Citation needed. The quote about the Maw breaking after Emerald Nightmare is already implemented in-game and at this stage the only changes left are balancing and tuning.

I get it’s fun to :poop: on blizz, but check yourself

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Yes. It’s just so sad after before the storm building them up as people. Oh, they’re both dead now? At least they… oh. Oh no!

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Kinda sucks that nothing happening in Legion feels relevant enough to break the entire way death works but I guess we’ll find out soon™

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