Easiest fix to help healer participation in shuffle :
Currently, your mmr/cr gains or losses are determined by amount of wins looking at each round of the shuffle individually. This is fine and should stay the same, EXCEPT for the following cases :
Any time one player go’s 6-0 or 0-6 (i.e: nobody managed to beat the 6-0er, or nobody managed to carry the 0-6er), then there should be no difference in the win/loss count for the rest of the players.
The most common scenario being of course the classic 0-6 dps that is uncarryable, giving the other dps a nice 4-2 and the healers a 3-3 waste of time.
So if a player go’s 6-0, everyone else should lose a tiny bit of mmr/cr (not the fairest but then again this doesnt happen often)
If a player go’s 0-6, then everyone wins a little cr/mmr (dps would get less than they currently do with the 4-2 outcome, healers would get more than the 3-3)
Imo this fix is fair (no reason dps win and healers draw if none of them managed to carry the weak link, and all of them beat the weak link— nothing from that outcome shows the dps did better than the healers)
This would also help incentivise healers to Q up, because (at least for me) the biggest turn off from shuffle is just wasting an hour doing 4 shuffles and getting a 0-6 dps 3 out of those 4 shuffles - its both a waste of time and its annoying seeing the other dps « win » when they didnt do any better.
Bonus fix: you should NEVER have the same dps on your team 3x in a row the first 3 games.
As a healer, getting losing the first 3 games with the same dps, and winning the next 3 against him, is an automatic « not Qing again today »
I like this, but also do the same with someone going 0/6. It will make the whole bracket more healthy if everyone has to take a hit equally. And it will make sure there wont be any inflation and adress that problem of future inflation too ,if people get constantly pushed down.
Overall Rating gain should be capped, similiar like it is in 3s, if you win vs a team which is 300rating and mmr above you, you still only get 20 rating. Solo shuffel should never give more than 30-40 rating even with an 6:0
Yes thats what i meant by the 6/0 and 0/6 paragraphs.
Any situation where a single player wins every round or loses every round immediately cancels any potential « ranking » of performance from the other 5 players. The only determining factor of that lobby was that single 6-0 or 0-6 player, and as such any impact to the rest of the players should be the same.
The current setup (for the most frequent case of a dps going 0-6) means the other dps get 4 wins and climb (and chill because even if they make a mistake or someone randomly throws against the weak link, they still land a 3-3 so no loss un rating), whereas the healers go 3-3 and draw (and sweat because any one game mistake can drop them to 2-4)
The frequency of this specific outcome, and the feeling of helplessness you have during these as a healer + the lack of reward + seeing the other dps being rewarded is a massive turnoff to healing shuffles, AND is a strong contributing factor to dps ratings being so inflated compared to healer ratings
True, 6-0 should probably result in « draw » for everyone else. Main idea is that for fairness healers and dps should get equal impact (instead of draw for healers and loss for dps)
Are healers actually as bad and hard to climb with as people say in pvp on forums, etc. ? I ask this, because I had actually a lot of games, where one of the healers went 6-0 and I went 3-3. I noticed that a lot of games come down to healer difference on my rating, because some healers will waste their cds on nothing randomly, and not help with cc. For example disc priests that just spam their pain suppression even though I already used my frenzied regen and went defensive stance… Unironically, I’m convinced that the perception of how healers are on the forums is different from reality, and healers have way more control than they are given credit to
Healers should not get more MMR than dps, because that will result long term in longer queue times for lower rating and it would decrease your game quality at higher rating. We just need more healer players, and this is done by making healers more fun to play and giving more rewards like additional honor/conquest. PvP rewards are really bad anyway atm in general. Just giving them more rating is not gonna make anyone happy long term I think
I wanted to help fellow shufflers with their queues and take one for the team so I went healer on a druid I had
After a few games, the dps probably thinking I was trolling, I was at 800 MMR and just went back to play dps
I could have stayed on it, learnt and geared it etc but sometimes it seems like it would have been an uphill battle
Also, you say sometimes healers don’t press etc etc
Honestly this is 50/50 between dps and healers
It’s a player thing not a role thing
Mages not blocking, Rets using Bop rather than bubble at 5% xd? Hunters not realising they need to press turtle because they are currently in space observing the surface of the moon collecting samples away from their healer
The amount of times I’ve had Dps basically int and throw games from having no awareness or just going so deep and ham and not pressing defensives
Everyone gets games like this man and it isn’t role specific
Main healers will say DPS do it
Main dps will say no healers also do it
Just one of them things
but if you want to give heal a go crack on and have some fun
It wasn’t for me
If a healer plays for 1 hour, they still get more rating, because they have instant queues. Also, if one of the healers is the one going 0/6, because maybe you are way better, then you go 6/0 and all dps go 3/3
At the cost of match quality. I barely have any games where the DPS are at my rating, it’s almost always hundreds below or over my rating, we only play against the other healer for our rating gains so we don’t even gain any extra if we beat the other healer in a game where the dps are at 2200 and we’re at 1600 bu in most cases those games end as 3-3 because the DPS are just too good compared to us.
This is also a problem in OW for tanks & supports, a problem that made me quit because I was often getting queued with people I wouldn’t even be able to sign with if I grouped up with them, due to the rating disparity being too great between us but they still place me in their games.
Likewise, I am tired of the similarity in solo shuffle and when I get the last piece from the conquest set, I’m not touching it as a healer until next season again.
They’re pushing healers into games well below or beyond their rating to satisfy the dps queues but it’s not working, because more and more healers are quitting and the queues are only to get longer and this problem is going to get worse and worse as more healers stop playing, soon you’ll probably have 2100-2200 healers getting into queued into very low lobbies to satisfy dps queues and they only stand to lose from it and then they start quitting too when they’ve had enough.
Blizzard are throwing us in there so dps can have their fun without even thinking about what that means for the healer.
Healer Q is inherently more unfair than DPS queques, because it draws from a far smaller pool, which can result in a higher MMR span between the two healers in the game. It needs to be done to keep DPS queques as they are, if that wouldn’t be the case you’d be sitting hourlong queques on the regular until a healer in your rating range decides to queque, and then actually accept the q.
Placements aside, where you get the real whacky matchups with 5 glads in your lobby while you play healer for the first time…
If I go 3-3 in a lobby where the other healer is around 200-400 point above my rating and the dps are higher than me aswell, do I deserve to have no rating gain, a rating loss or a rating gain? What if I manage to squeeze out only 2 wins against players with higher MMR and rating than me, doesn’t the “underdog” healer deserves a MMR bump and some rating? Dudes been put in a lobby where he has a handicap after all.
In return, is it fair for the game to throw a 2,2k healer into a sub 2k lobby because of waiting times ,where he should dominate, but we all know thats not how it works, sometimes you work your butt off, but in a teamgame, sometimes no matter how hard you try, it might not be enough to carry some Havoc DH only pveing and never pressing defensives, whic his pretty realistic for the 1,8k to 2,1k rating range.
Honestly, I really highly doubt that we have healer shortage due to this.
The healer shortage spans over the entire game for various reasons. I think personally that we have healer shortage, because targeting in WoW healing is very bad for new players, who learn the game. Also, healers are not interesting enough thematically compared to DPS in my opinion. If you are a new or returning player and you pick up a healer, I don’t think it’s enjoyable at all to get into it. I’m of the opinion that the healer issue will be fixed, if healers are more fun to play and easier to learn. The healer population is like a sea: You need fresh water, or it dries out.
Yeah, I know, because people complain about MMR in every single MMR game that I’ve ever played. I do understand that healers may have it rough sometimes, but I can’t imagine MMR being the reason that we have so high shortage, because healer shortage is present in the entire game. If you make it too easy for healers to climb and inflate their MMR, you will just make queues in lower elo higher, and I don’t think enough new healer will queue up to improve the situation at all.
It is certainly a big contributor. Everyone I know that plays(or should I say played) healer in solo shuffle got their elite set and then bailed on the game mode because of the matchmaking. They’re playing 2v2 or 3v3 instead even though they have to wait for their partners to come online to play, if they’re not pugging it.
All we want is an MMR / rating system that is fair and comparable to what DPS specs get to enjoy in RSS (i.e. inflated AF), otherwise get rid of the mode entirely and we’ll go back to enjoying 2v2 / 3v3 as god intended.
DPS are 4 people competing for rating gains, healers are 2.
You say this, but 3v3 seems to be completely dead, if you open LFG. Solo shuffle is very popular in general due to group finding being simplified, and perceived as more fair overall. Look, if healers get rewarded for 3-3 they will climb way too fast, and this will make casual players quit, who then have to wait way longer, and in very high elo, good dps will be frustrated having to deal with elo inflated healers. If they do elo inflation, it has to be done for everyone. WoW just has terrible Healer gameplay from my point of view in general, and it’s too “weird” for a new player to learn. Also, the deviation from playing a dps spec to playing a healer spec is way too big gameplay-wise, so you don’t have many successful healer-“conversions” probably.
I mean this will only shift the queues from mid-high to low mmr, and this would be even worse for overall game health. As if you will see thousands of healer players all of the sudden play, because they made healers gain rating a little faster… I would consider your argument way more, if we didn’t have a huge healer shortage in the entirety of the game.
