State of BM Hunter in M+

Classes Hunter
1

The State of BM Hunter in M+ is currently something that leave alot to wish for, im currently playing in a group of people that enjoy spending time together and pushing ourselfs as much as we can.

Our BM hunter always has trouble surviving same abilities others survive with ease. They have to choose between using a pet for extra defensive or using a pet for Heroism/Bloodlust or have to dismiss and summon in between pulls which is just clonky.

On top of that, you also have mobs like the Hulking Berserkers in Uldaman, or the Wilted Oak in Brackenhid that does the Brutal Slam, and the Stomp ability which stuns their pets for x amount of time rendering them completely useless during that time, even though they cant avoid it with the same easy as other ranged or even other melees unless they want to call back their pets on passive and just AFK.

Some of these stuff could be easily fixed, for example these 2 mobs that ive said, just make the abilities not hit pets?

I understand its hard to make everyone happy but whatever people say or think hunters are a huge part of the wow community, good hunters, bad hunters, awsome hunters and terrible hunters. Its always been classified as the noob class, the starter class or whatever but to be fair, doing really good today as hunter is damn near impossible compared to so many other classes.

And im not saying every class has to have everything or be awsome at everything. Just make it a little less unforgiving. And dont forget that Hunters are one of the most played classes in the game.

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I agree with you. I got a 2,8k ret and a 2,8k BM hunter. The Ret paladin feels like a tank compared. Doesnt really feel fair. As you said with the pet. I can´t do +21 keys with only my Bl pet because then i have only 1 defencive with 2,4 min cooldown. Even if i switch to a spirit beast or w/e im still too squishy. When the boss is at 50% hp i already used all my pots and defencives i got just to survive. And then what? just wait to die? Blizzard need to either reduce the cooldown of Survival of the fittest with a ton. Or just come up with a new spell. And everyone who do 20+ keys know what i am talking about.

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We are mediocre at everything, we excel at nothing, everything we can do other specs can do too but better, at high keys i feel more like a liability than someone who actually brings something to the group.

Give us the leech from pet damage already if youre gonna refuse to give us more defensives or lower their cd drastically, at least it would be worth running a ferocity pet then and giving up on one of our 2 defensives (turtle isnt much of a defensive when you cant even attack and only immunes physical damage, hell, even mages can talent into a 70%dr iceblock where they can still cast…).

But yea, nothing is gonna change as usual, they buffed our 3 most useless skills which still doesnt fix anything, buff the skill that actually does matter, kill command. Goes to show they dont really care tbh, feels like were just extra work for a different class dev.

Really takes the fun out of pusing keys when you flop over with defensives while other classes barely flinch.

I advise the dev thats managing bm to run 22 keys and up in a pug where you never get sac, earth shield, etc… then tell us our spec is fine. That is, if you ever gonna get into those keys, good luck.

1 Like
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Hm.

I’ve been taking a lot of notes and digging deeper in the abilities and Talents of my BM Hunter, after playing it almost exclusively since Dec 2021, and I’ve still learned a few things …

First, mobility : in Brackenhide Hollow in particular, if your character is outside of those slam/stun areas, you can use a Barbed Shot or Bestial Wrath, and the very last lines of the tooltips of those Talents show that they break controls or stun on the pets.

I’ve had my pets stunned by those trees in BH, one Barbed Shot and they’re back to munching tree bark.

Same thing in Uldaman : Barbed Shot and Bestial Wrath “sends you and your pets in a Frenzy”, with the very last words stating that it breaks crowd control, stun and root effects.

Works in PvP too !

Second, Leech : several people have said to me, on this message board, that the Leech heals the pets and not myself.

And yet, when I open Details! and Warcraft Log Companions to analyze my performance after a run (up to +19 at the moment, I’m definitively not in the high leagues yet), when I check the “healing done, source, target”, I see that my beloved Kurken is the main source of personnal healing, and that I’m indeed the target of his healing !

While when I have Gara out (Spirit Beast, with Spirit Mend etc), if I’m outside of the 25m range of that ability, she will heal the Tank and not me, and my Leech stat (I got a few items with that proc, so not zero without a Ferocity pet out) reads “source = autoattacks, target = myself”.

So honestly I’m at a loss, so many people with much more experience than me told me that Leech heals the pet, but the three damage meters and combat analysis tools I use tell me that I’m the target of those heals, not my pet.

I’ve learned that Aspect of the Turtle is not so much a defensive but rather a group-wide immunity (well, reflect) : the damage reduction if you’re already under DoTs or taking damage when you use it is a bit “meh”, but during it’s duration you’re immune to new sources of damage, and you can run around collecting spore dusts in Underrot or Void Motes in Aberrus without being affected by them, and more importantly without building stacks for the rest of your group !

For me, the biggest problems at the moment are : the short duration and terribly long cooldowns of our Personnal Defensive (with the caveat that Aspect of the Turtle also does something else that is very important in some encouters), coupled with the need to spend absurd amounts of Focus to reduce said cooldowns; and the relative weakness of our self-healing Exhilaration (the pet is fully healed, but the hunter only heals by 30%, with maybe +16% of your max HP over 8 seconds if you slotted 2 Talents nodes for that).

But if I’m making rookie mistakes like standing in damage pools or taking frontals in the teeth, nothing can save me.

Leech, Exhiliration, focusing the right targets in the best order (like they said in Fantasy RPG, “casters first”) and the optimal timing of my Personnal Defensive allowed me several times to be the last man standing in +17 to +19 keys, then Feign Death to break aggro and engi BR on the group’s healer.

The Beast Master might look like the noobie-friendly spec, and in most “open world PvE mid-level content” it’s quite true, but once you reach hard, end-level content, you really need to read every single last word of every singly ability and talent, plus know your timers, cooldowns and effects so well that they become ingrained reflexes, to be actually able to contribute and pull your weight.

Again, I’m far from perfect, and the current system of M+ rotating very old dungeons that I never saw before having started in Dec 2021 mean I have to learn new things every few months, but let’s be clear on one point : the tools are there, they are hard to find and use effectively, but they are STILL there.

Playing a Beast Master in most situation is easy.

Playing a good Beast Master in end-level content is extremely hard.

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As i’ve always said: Damage you deal heals you, damage your pet deals heals the pet.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/n7jRBPVWhG4kHg8t#fight=29&type=healing&source=452&view=events

You can see the large overheal lines here on the pet, this is from AoE kill commands on a pack when the pet is not at full HP. The reason there are not more lines like this is because the pet would be at 100% HP in those moments.

And like I said you can very easily see it in game. Unequip all of your gear and reequip it to get your pet to low hp, then multishot>kill command into the AoE dummies to watch your pet receive a large amount of leech healing.

Another possibly better way of showing it: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/n7jRBPVWhG4kHg8t#fight=29&type=resources&source=455&view=events
Everytime the pet takes any damage, it instantly leech heals it back up the next swing.

And fwiw, bestial wrath will break stuns, but barbed shot should not.

1 Like
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First, thank you.

I’ll need a bit of info to understand those logs better : Hintehunter is your Character and Harambe is your “main pet”, right ?

I think I’ll have to dig around in the manuals for Details! and Warcraft Logs, it seems like I misconfigured something since I get different results and “targets for healing” than you (and that would not surprise me, I’m a klutz when setup-in addons and apps).

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It’s not my log/character no, just the first one I found running leech pet since most are running a tenacity one for the CD.

Truly is a random log - but yes, hintehunter is the character and harambe is the main pet.

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A second thank you for your effort then !

Ok, back to the drawing board for me, I still need to learn and understand more.

Side note : I haven’t found BiS gear yet, apart from the Tier Set pieces (that I had to transform) and Harlan’s Dice (maxed at 437, 8/8), but I did get a Leech bonus on almost every item I managed to loot or get into the Great Vault so far (even got boots from Underrot, not the BiS ones the ones with Versa, on the Hero track, with a Leech proc), so my Leech Tertiary Characteristic is somewhere around 11% without any pets out, and reaches 26% when I get my trusty Core Hound out (as most PUGs only take my in for BL, so Ferocity by default), that might be why I felt I got “enough healing” from Leech alone …

I also tend to be more than 25 meters from any fight, so when Gara is out, she defaults to Spirit Mend the tank and not myself. As far as I know, that’s the default hardcoded mode for that pet ability, it should target the character taking the most damage within its 25m range, quite logical that it would be the tank of the group.

I now understand more, and it explains a lot of the things I was “feeling” but had no real proof for.

I think I’ll still use my Core Hound by default, mostly because I like it and I’m almost always asked to “manage the BL”, but I really have to find how to properly configure those addons and apps so I can stop confusing myself !

I might be confused on the Barbed Shot breaking stuns, indeed, I’m 97% certain about Bestial Wrath (because it’s written on it, despite the translation horrors of the English to French version of my client), and I thought that Barbed Shot broke stuns, but it might be because it sends the pets charging that I felt that : they can charge, but still be stunned, if I understood the mechanic correctly, so they would charge, make their stomp, and still be too dizzy to do anything else (since the charge and stomp come from the Talents, and not the pets themselves).

Thank you again Master, since I’ve started asking question and following advice (mostly yours), I’ve seen a huge increase in my performance ingame, and I understand a lot more now.

1 Like
9

Ah, the problem I’ve been having there finally makes sense. I assumed it was some weird LoS thing at certain points in that section of the dungeon. I’m going to try setting up a macro to toggle between assist and passive so I can get them out of there just as it’s about to go through. It’s what I have to do myself when I’m playing melee or tank (hunter is the only ranged class I play) so I always pay attention to the stomp.

I have spirit mend under my control and macroed to cast on myself and (unless I have a particular reason to be standing in Narnia) always make sure I’m within its range. I tend to use it any time it’s off CD and I’m not already at full HP.

With so many holy paladins around now, it’s important to not be standing at max range if you want to get healed because hpalas are primarily melee healers.

(Not related to the log - just wanted you to get a notification).

Do you have any suggestions on how to help the healer on 3rd boss Uldaman? We failed it 3 times on +22 yesterday because the healer simply couldn’t keep us alive. I looked at one set of logs, and the second time I got the bleed (when exhilaration was already on CD from the first time), my health pot didn’t even heal the damage from a single tick.

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Really hard to say without knowing comp really. The only time i’ve played keys this tier has been the past 2 resets with an aug/holy paladin in the group (I’m playing SP) and you can generally just rotate sac and evoker dispel. But even without either of these, a +22 tyran is prob going to last just under 3 mins, which is about 5 debuffs. So on average you are only ever going to get one or two, with it hitting for ~380k initially, then ~200k every 2 seconds completely unmitigated. So ye, health pot is only worth a single tick, make sure you pick up 15 points in frost potions if you are alchemy, this doubles healing pot value (via a HoT). Without any externals or anything, i’d prob just send SoTF on one, and exhil/healthpot/fortitude/turtle if needed on another. If you get 3 you are pretty unlucky, but theres probably somebody in the group that can at least help a bit anyway.

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I must have been unlucky, then! It’s usually the 3rd or 4th one that kills me. Although I think the healers on 2 out of the 3 failed runs were out of their depth.

I’ve just paid for a race change to dwarf, which should help as well.

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From what I learned (thanks to you two LOL), plus a few failed runs in that instance, I see one possible problem and one possible solution, without changing anything.

Possible problem : the healer of the group was too busy (or too dead) to remove those deadly DoTs (happened to me), and if the group composition did not include a second character able to remove said horrors, it’s “flat as a pancacke” time. A possible solution to this problem is to set a Spirit Beast pet as a “guardian” for the healer, to keep him alive longer and help with general healing.

The best possible solution would of course be communication before starting, but since I don’t know if you PUG’ed that one, went with a premade, had voice coms etc, I’ll say no more.

The possible solution to the incoming DoT was thaught to me by one of you two genuinely helping people : if you see the DoT being cast on you, Turtle Powa before it hits, so you won’t get hit by the first tick, meaning that you won’t get affected by the whole spell if my own experience mean anything (I tried that, and survived long enough to rez our healer with my engi bracers, in a +18 last week where I once more was the last one standing as a sligthly less sturdy than a wet paper towel Hunter with a Ferocity pet out in PUGhell).

I’m honestly flabbergasted by the number of times I’ve found myself being the last one alive, then having to GTFO, Feign Death, and use an engi CR in +16 to +19 keys.

And that trend started before I learned even more about the “Most Efficient Way To Use Defensives” as a BM Hunter, even back in Shadowlands S3 I had that happen way too often (and I used a Gnomish Army Knife from WoD as a pocket CR then).

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Indeed, but not only Hpals : Monks, Shamans with Totems, even Priest have a burst of healing around them with some Talent choices, Druids in some cases, Evokers when they plant that mini tree on the Tank, and I guess there’s more I haven’t seen yet.

I’m slowly changing my playstyle (quite hard to break ingrained reflexes after two years) to try to be positionned closer to the fights, ideally on the opposite side of the mob being dealt with by the Tank and facing said Tank, all that with a max of 20 meters between myself and every other member of the group.

I tend to take more AoEs, yes, but if I’m careful and reactive enough I can usually avoid the cleaves and frontals by repositionning (Disengage, then run back to a better position), and I’m in the main “healing zone” while still being able to “pull my weight” (as light as it is being a Gnome) in fights.

More and more, I think the Beast Master is not a “true” ranged DPS, because the closer I am to a fight, the less travel time for my pets, their Stomps when I launch a Barbed Shot do not pulverise pavement anymore, I’m more often in the various healing AoEs and auras usually focused around the tank, and more : in short, I survive more and deal more damage.

I still have nasty problems with mechanics from Dungeons I discovered for the first time in this S2 however, most notably the last boss of Underrot (with everyone telling me to stick to the Tank like glue, but if I do that when that massive things vomits, I die no matter what, even with double defensives activated and after swapping every possible item enchant to Avoidance) and the Dragon boss in Vortex Pinacle (I still cannot get the timing of that downward wind right, with too many conflicting versions of how to avoid it [the edge, the middle, whut ?], and I’ve had the misfortune of timing it right only to fall down into several whirlwinds that threw me all over the circle to finally drop me right in the breath weapon).

Not much room to Disengage and reposition in that particular Dragon fight either, a Disengage at the wrong place sent me out of the combat circle to instadie behind a pillar out of LoS.

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I forgot to ask : which one is that “third” boss ?

I’ve seen as many ways to run that dungeon as I’ve been in PUGs to it, from doing the Dwaves first to doing the big Trogg first, shortcuts I did not even know existed, trying to jump on benches to skip those last two sentries before the final boss (learned to revoke my pets before attempting that, or else if I miss a jump they’ll take the stairs and bring back company), and I also would like to know more about that dungeon in general and it’s mechanics in particular.

I’ve managed to understand the “flame throwing robot” mechanics on my own, despite several conflicting guides, videos and comments from PUG “mates”, the big Trogg too (ignore everything beside him until his special totem is cast, then focus said totem with as much Cleaves as possible to clean a max of hostile, then go back to focusing Bromach and ignoring the rest), but it’s once again a brand new dungeon for me, having started in Dec 2021 …

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Give hunts 2 charges of deterrence back turtle is pretty useless save for battlegrounds and even…and increase the useless leech.
Just to start going.

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I’d advise you to look for several of the replies I got about the Aspect of the Turtle, it does much more than I thought as a “group utility” …

But the CoolDown, Sweet Basement Cat, is way too long for it to be really useful, mostly in M+ … I would not know about Raid content, since I don’t do that (yet).

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