So rseults are in and as expected after the ss nerf, disc is by far the worst healer in normal, heroic and mythic raids now.
What people AND the devs dont seem to understand is you judge a healer by its healing POTENTIAL and not by the hps.
Its logical that disc was far ahead of other healers in Mythic raids because thats how ABSORBS work, they absorb before others can heal.
The other healers would be totally able to heal the same amount spirit shell absorbed in a matter of seconds after the damg rolled in.
The problem is the healing/absorb potential of disc is now totally down the drain considering the insane mana consumtion disc has.
Conclusion is if absorbs are the problem give disc more ways to aoe heal the normal way and evang. isnt the solution either.
Other healers press ONE button for their big aoe heals while disc has to cast 10 shields and 2 radiances and then the damg spells which makes them completely inflexible.
Its completely beyond me how holy palas who hardly use any mana at all and deal like 100% more damg than disc WHILE healing slide by completely unaffected.
The disc nerf wasnt because disc has more healing potential than others it was because the other healers cried because they werent able to be top hps because of a inherent mechanic tied to absorbs.
If you look how much disc can heal/absorb before they run oom compared to other on top of being the most complicated healer to play the spec is dead for raiding.
But at least the other healers can be proud they top the meters again…
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I think Atonement should be buffed to compensate, it would also make Evang a viable choice again.
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How the f did blizzard approve this is beyond me. effective 25% nerf to ALL HEALING during the fights. Discipline is dead now in raids.
This thread…
There is barely any data in and you are already crying about the state of disc… you can just pick evangelism if you don’t like spirit shell, which is and always has been viable.
Disc has good damage, good drs in barrier and pain sup and the ability to push healing into small damage windows. With Evangelism your hps will be totally fine. These are all very valuable things to have in a progression environment and disc has been in almost every world first kill since the rework in legion.
Spirit shell was insanely broken and toxic for the game, disc should never have been an hps powerhouse along with everything else it brings.
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He also posted at raid launch disc was trash, all doom and gloom.
Not replying to the actual topic properly without more parses for data yet.
But feelies:
I definitely felt the difference tonight.
BUT it wasn’t a flat 25% like someone posted. That would assume your only healing is SS and you always cap it on the same amount of people.
It certainly isn’t dead with the advantages it provides.
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Yeah obviously it isnt dead…
Its abslutely fine…
warcraftlogs. com/zone/statistics/26#metric=hps
warcraftlogs. com/zone/statistics/26#metric=hps&difficulty=3
warcraftlogs. com/zone/statistics/26#metric=hps&difficulty=4
I just wonder where that elitism is comming from?
You dropped by 1 more than 2 k hps compared to before the nerf while not even healing as disc all fights, but i think its because its just too good to use the spec the entire raid.
Cant see many dps switching specs mid raid because their spec sucks for specific bosses.
SS wasnt op at all hps wise. Other healers overgearing the content like you could have easily healed up the amount ss absorbed.
Its the absorb mechanic which is the problem, because it snipes other healers, well it isnt a problem per se its just a problem for the childish people who cry because they cant top the meters instead of being content to have killed the boss.
No other class forum seems to have such a delight in brining down the own spec as priests seem to have.
Resto druids , Holy Palas or Resto shamans absolutely dominate m+ and now raids and you wont see those classes cry for nerf to their own specs.
2 Likes
The 3 ppl working on balancing will eventually get around to it…
This issue is even more frustrating if you’re not Venthyr.
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Right I forget you check logs, if someone doesn’t play disc they have no say.
It wouldn’t be fair to compare my logs last night to my best log last patch xd it was actually a very bad raid, one of our worst.
I went holy on altimor because disc wasn’t providing what was needed. We had 2 healers unable to show so we pugged ppl and had a boomie heal all bosses.
Like I dunno what you want, last topic you made you told me I couldn’t have an opinion cos at the time I didnt play disc, now I cant have one because?
I didnt even say it was good or bad. But disc really won’t be benched over it.
The nerf was huge… disc has now gone from OP to fine, imo. As I said when CN came out, Spirit Shell is just conceptually a powerful spell, even though blizz wants it to do less HPS than Evangelism you’re still going to use it because of its 1min CD while putting absorbs on the whole raid.
The obvious intention is that deciding between SS and Evang should be a choice… Sacrifice HPS for absorb potential. At the moment that’s still not the case though SS is still superior so this is just a nerf to disc…
IDK why ppl think this killed our viability in raids though lol, SS is fundamentally broken, this nerf won’t get us benched at all. You could delete SS entirely (which would be nice) and we’d still do great HPS with evangelism, we have barrier, PI, Pain Suppression there’s just so much stuff disc has that makes it a highly desired spec in raids.
The problem with the healer balance right now is that all the classes with best utility and/or damage are also doing the best healing when it should be the exact opposite. Hpriest monk and druid aren’t as useful while also not doing enough raw HPS to compensate so that’s why they’re not as popular in raids at the moment. Nerfing SS only partially fixes this, and tbh if the scaling thing I mentioned earlier is correct this will only be temporary.
2 Likes
Disc is just a hard spec for them to get right. Adding spirit shell back was a terrible choice. Absorbs were removed/reduced for a reason back in the day.
In an MMO so stuck in the “holy trinity” design where as much as possible is homogenised (now) disc is just really out of place. Because of this it does good healing with all its other advantages. And the good healing can be significant absorbs that make mechanics trivial.
I think it’s too early to say, but one thing is for sure spirit shell is now a very hefty throughput loss for a different “Type” of throughput. One that might still be useful, even necessary, as the tiers roll on, but is definitely a trade-off.
I expect that, regardless of actual performance, the parses in heroic will drop substantially, as Evangelism is just flat out harder to play. It wouldn’t surprise me if the spec needs a buff to offset the current HPS difference between paladins and shamans top end, maybe to atonement transfer rate.
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nerf was warranted, disc is fine, but it should NOT have been done now, in the middle of a tier. This nerf should’ve hit live on 9.1.
Doing it in the middle of the tier is just stupid as hell.
I agree, due to the nerf you are trading throughput for absorbs, at least that’s the intention. When I peeked at the logs I was still seeing spirit shell being used for pretty much every encounter. But honestly could be down to players not wanting to change how they play mid-tier, the nerf was huge. Evangelism should be straight up more HPS now.
Not true. Almost every single encounter in the raid atm doesnt cater to evangelism, unless you go down on healers, which a lot of encounters also dont support.
Not sure what you mean, would you mind elaborating?
Most encounters have short bursts of damage, especially on fights that really matter, aka. the hard fights. Evangelism basically does nothing on fights like sludgefest, SLG, Council, etc. I could imagine it being decent on fights like hungering, Xymoxx and lady inerva though.
OK I see now, Evangelism would overheal too much so it wouldn’t do more HPS in practice. Makes sense. I intend to use SS for the rest of this tier in mythic regardless but I would like to see if more people try evangelism now.
I might try it for a couple of bosses once sire is down, but it’s doubtful that it’ll be better, at least for this tier. Next tier, you might juggle evangelism and SS depending on how certain fights play out.
I’m still thinking the nerf should have been to mindgames. Playing NF on progression, I wasn’t way ahead of other healers because I couldn’t cap SS…
SS needed a nerf but not 20% especially if you look at logs, resto druid is now doing more HPS then disc ever did on fights… i dont understand the logic in nerfing something just to buff something else which overtakes what the original was doing in the first place…