State of season 1 mythic+ from a new player

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
1

This will just be my recap of this season so far, as a FIRST time key pusher and FIRST time tank player.

While the slightest problem i wanna start with it regardless.

CHALLENGER’S PERIL, its bad its disgusting literally 100% of the community share this opinion which is insane by itself. In a game where u learn by making mistakes and improving, this affix eliminates the option to “make mistakes” because if u make 1 as a tank or healer it usually leads to a wipe and u have max about 2 of them before everyone leaves, and u know its bad when even top 0.1% players complain about it.
Everybody know how punishing it is but let me give 1 example: NW 2nd boss wipe +75s add the runback from start to 2nd boss another minute at least, all and all u have added 3min to ur timer just from 1 wipe. Remove it or add it as a high end affix like the level 12 now. People in low keys learn by failing mechanics and dying, doesnt it make more sense the 10% dmg/hp affix to be at 7 and if peril exists to move it to lvl 12?

Key progression is sh!t it feels like hell, no reward what so ever before u 7+
Not gonna mention low keys, only that the only way to do them is to sit for 1hr in dornogal and wait for someone to join ur key if u are lucky.
7-9 : it is all downhill from here honestly u get peril and 1-2 major mistakes key is bricked, another bad part is for 7s u get mostly low gear players joining since the decent player are farming 8s for crest and no one is stepping inside 7s unless boosting a friend or alting.
Then in 8s u usually get geared and people that actually play the game which feels good
10-12 : Although many people say 10 is the wall , while i agree at some point u outgear it
and it just clicks , on top of that as long as u do the affix buff helps a ton. It is not so bad.

Then u get to the real wall, 12’s and u start to hate ur life. From 11 to 12 u get around 40% jump in HP/DMG, that is without counting the miss of affix which is a huge overall boost so in reality make that jump above 50% which sounds about right with no affix buff.
For me a player that 2 chests 11s, i have only one 12 done so far and it was timed by the skin of my body, this is insane to me that 1 level difference in key is so big, no wonder people quit after 10s. As a tank with the nerfs we have this season, in 12s if i dont juggle around my defs perfectly and time them i just die, 1 tank buster without def cd even from thrash and its a wipe, which is deplete at this point unless the wipe is at the start of the key

I wont even go into how bad class balance, reward progression and dungeon pool is, the fact i need to write 4k word essay on how bad this season is to cover all problems.
What all this leads to is people quiting after 10s, im in a m+ guild and almost no one is going above 12, i focused more on socializing and finding people to play with this season since i got tired of pugs, 90% of them quit 2 months ago the other 10 are just farming weekly 10s because they saw how 12s feel and gave up

I know blizzard tried something new which was bold, but they failed, what irritates me is that in 3 months only change they made is add 1 minute to ur time which doesnt solve anything. Lets hope season 2 brings us joy and prosperity

Kufara#21432 if u like to add me and play :slight_smile:

2

Factually incorrect.

You can get yourself to 619 by only doing 4-6.

21% (on 11, 259% hp total and on 12, 285%+10% hp total) increase, not counting the loss of the buff from +2 affix. It is nowhere close to 50%.

3

  1. Go ahead and try to do 4-6 in LFG, 1 hour+ to form a group even as a tank

  2. LVL 11 modifier is +159% ----> lvl 12 is 185% and 10% from guile 36 % so far and without buff how is this no where near 50%

3.As of the challenger peril its literally mentioned in every podcast about M+ and videos of high keys pushers, sure keep it but at least dont give it to low key players that are getting smashed, make it lvl 12 affix no?

4

For the record what other affix would you want to be at +7? Something has to be (and always has been), +7 is where Heroic track drops start.

Math. You are taking the percentage difference as the increase, but the percentage difference isn’t equal to growth. Even when you are talking about percentages.

I apply to 4-6 keys as a 605 tank and get instantly invited.

5

Don’t bother arguing with him I assure you either he/she is a blizzard employee or being paid by them

I never saw one negative comment from this person and he comment on 90% if not more on the dungeon thread

This season is freaking bad according to both true high pusher and casuals alike

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6

Amen - blizz wake up and simplify the game - remove affixes.

7

Right. Me actually enjoying the season is literally impossible. I must be paid in real money to address false criticism.

I could give plenty of negative feedback, but no one asked me, so I will keep it to myself. They bother me, but not enough to whinge about them on the forums.

You are entitled to your opinion and I will not take that from you.

8

Correct. 100%. And even the 0.1% top players complain about this. I am amazed they did not scrap this ASAP the 3rd week of the season.

Key progression went from gear aquisition + rio… and after 10s just rio for the challange…

to…

RIO all over the place. Its dumb to even farm gear.

Welcome to the club.

Assuming that you do manage to do 12s… 13s are in an even worse state. Because there is literally NOBODY to play. 90% of the people that actually managed all 12s (or some) said “FK IT !!!” and simply stoped playing or rolled an alt.

And the few that are playing, the difficulty has spiked so much that its meta or nothing. Which is like 8 key levels bellow the 0.1% and that is insane. Something like this only existed in S2 of DF with Exodia comp.

Yes. Absolutely horreondous. I dont understand what takes them so long to do changes, its retarded. Idiotic and moronic. I dont like to insult, but this is something that is beyond comprehension.

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9

Nellja, not everyone is you. OP is correct.

Everyone (except you) hates that affix. So its factually correct what he sais.

50% uptime on a BL buff is your missing 30% right there. The kiss affixes are stupid OP. That is a LOT of damage/healing/tanking that is missing.

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10

Alright, so let’s say that Challenger’s Peril is as bad as you say. I will concede to that it is.

What will you put in it’s place? Necrotic? Explosive? Bolstering? Something new and even more punishing?

Or nothing? That’s is also fine. So now you have pushed Heroic track drops to +9 and Gilded to +10 onwards. Do you think people would be happy with that?

In case none of the above suffices, it sounds to me that people just want a hand-out. We can then introduce 6/6 Mythic drops for Normal dungeons.
I know this is a pointlessly extreme example, but I don’t like it when people say “this is too punishing, we want it removed” but they don’t come up with a suitable alternative or willing to give the rewards it provides.

That is correct. The difficulty increase on 12 is too much, I agree. You love a nearly free, massive secondary stat buff and you get slapped with an extra 10%. It really should be just one or the other (imo, lose the affix entirely and not be slapped with another extra 10%)
But my point still stands: it’s nowhere near close to +50%.

11

How about nothing. And why would you have to push guilded to 10+ onwards?

The issue with the affix is that it dosent make the dungeon any harder. It just increases the likelyhood of a deplete.

And all that does is increase frustration. Too much frustration and people stop playing. And M+ with out people to play with is bad. Really bad. And I repeat… it has nothing to do with the difficulty. Just frustration.

As for guilded/hero gear level cutoff that depends on the overall difficulty of the season. The point of gear is to give a false sensation of progression. That is what its supposed to do. And people dont want hand-outs. They just dont want to be stuck in the same M+ level with zero sense of progression (which is different than rewards).

So the “cutoff level” should be where 50% of the M+ players sit. Some easy seasons that could be a +15. Other harder seasons that can be a +6.

But what you dont want to do is arbirearelly put it on a +10 when most people are playing a +6. Because that adds frustration. And it defeats the purpose of gear.

And again. If people dont feel a sense of progression in the activity they do… they stop playing. And M+ with no players == REALLY BAD.

We need people to play basically. And call it what you want “progression” or “hand-outs”. Blizzard has to do whatever it takes to keep people playing.

Not sure if I explained myself properly. But there is a empiric reason for these things. What you suggest is putting it on a +10 for… “reasons”…

I just said that DDs do ~ 30% more DPS with the affixes.

And by the way, its not 21%. Its more.

Its 11% from scaling. PLUS 10% increase to base damage (which then gets further increased by scaling). So its a bit more than 21%.

And seccond, DDs do ~ 20% to 30% more DPS with the affixes. We can argue all you want if its 50% spike or not.

But it would be pointless. Its much more than 21% as you claim. Maybe 45%, maybe 40%… dosent matter. Its still a HUGE spike.

And this spike will remain in S2 by the way. Which will be a problem on its own.

That is why I suggested on PTR forums to make 12s have 0% scaling with respect to an 11. To compensate for the lack of affix.

12

It is mathematically impossible.
20% (against base stats) increase with absolutely maximum of 50% uptime, literally cannot be more than 10% increased performance. If you really want me to math it out for you, fine, but on the highest end it is 7-8% in total.

Please don’t throw random numbers around just to support your argument.
It will never even get close to +50% increase compared to +11.

I thought they undid the higher scaling above max reward key. It used to be +12% above +20 keys and then they reverted to nirmal +10%.

But it does matter. Is it big? Yes. Should it be? No.
But people exaggerating numbers does matter.
Imagine if people were going around saying that xyz race is doing crime two-hundred times more likely and then justifying it “well, it doesn’t matter by how much more likely it is, they are still more likely”.
Yeah, it matters.

Everything you do during comes down to skill and greed.

It’s a risk & reward system. Are you able to pull that other group together? Can you finish the cast without being hit by that swirly? Can you face-tank that mechanic with a def in order to keep healing/damaging? Can you maximise your Cooldown without dying?

In that regards, this affix does well. It is 100% spec and role neutral and it encourages people accounting for the fact that the risk sometimes, isn’t worth it. Mechanics and survival comes first.

And because Challenger’s Peril increases the difficulty by a significant amount, +7 increases the rewards as well.

That is your opinion. I like gearing my characters.

I am sure nobody wants, but I haven’t seen a convincing argument where people can truly claim that they cannot progress at all.

It absolutely doesn’t defeat the purpose of gear and while I can agree that it can cause some fustration, it doesn’t mean that the system needs improvement.

Players who can only do +6,can gear up to 619. That’s the end of their progression. If they are unwilling to improve to do +8/9 to be able to gear to +626, then that’s completely on them.

I am unwilling to do Mythic raiding. Just because I play 8-10 M+, am I entitled to Mythic Raider gear? No.

If people are repulsed from challenges and the potential to fail, then have another option still: alts.

Sure. We also need “Ultra-Easy” modes for Dark Souls and Cup head. Otherwise, it’s designed badly.

I think I got the gist of it.

13

Buffs are multiplicative, not additive.

I agree that we are both making up numbers. But then you have to also agree that you under-estimate the power of the affixes.

And of course, the real number is unknown. It depends on spec and skill to begin with, so it will have a huge spread.

But its definitely not something you have to consider. And arguing if its 50% or not is pointless. What matters is that its something not to underestimate and something that gives significant power to players.

Yes. Plus the affix. The affix increases 10% (used to be 20%) to base damage on top of the scaling.

You make affixes for the player base you have. Not the one you would like to have.

99% of us have the skill we got. And to get more skill we need a ton more practice than just 1 season. And that is why anything that encourages “skill” as you say… well… it wont work.

(A) Challengers Peril does not increase difficulty. Just frustration.

(B) Gear is not about rewards. Its about progression as I said before. Its a misconception many people have.

And WHY do you like to gear your characters. Why not collect mounts instead ?

Think about it. And you will reach the same conclusion.

I can tell you one: People on average require more than 1 season to progress in skill. So you got an issue there.

And if you want a real world example of what gear progression looks like: Raids. Since Vanilla they have been designing different systems of gear progression, which has only 1 purpose: To slowly “buff” players such that by the end of the season a maximum number of them kill as many bosses as possible.

Then they stop playing. No people… no dungeons. Simple as that. Let me prove it to you with your own example:

Lets assume you DO raid. What blizzard dosent want is to make a raid where only the RTWF people see the raid and that’s it.

There is a spread of players. Some are more skilled than others. RTWF people will do the raid in the first 2 weeks practically naked. Other guilds will take a month. Others will take 3.

But the bosses are all the same. They don’t change. And what blizzard does is to “nerf” the bosses as the season progresses. To make sure its not just 10 guild in the world that kill the last boss, while everyone else has been stuck wiping 700 times to the 4rth boss.

One thing blizzard could do is simply nerf bosses by 5% every week. But people dont like that. They HATE that. They tried it in WotlK and it was a disaster.

What Blizzard does is to tune the bosses. Such that RTWF people do them practically naked. And everyone else farms Myth Track gear. And by the time they reach the last boss they are full 636 and are 10%/15% more powerful. Which is kinda like nerfing the boss by 10 to 15%.

And that is also why the first bosses are easier than the last bosses. While giving the same ilvl gear ! Blizzard wants people to farm those bosses, gear up, so then they can overcome the challenges of the following bosses.

Its been like that since 2004. Some expansions they miss the shot, others they do it well. But that is the idea.

And people like that. Because it feels like they “earned it”.

See ? :slight_smile:

M+ has a different problem. Because if WE get a progression system we ruin the one from raids. And vice-versa. And this is a problem since Legion. And now, its an even bigger problem with Delves.

And that is why we are stuck with this crappy system. Because lets be honest here… high keys absolutely deserve Mythic gear. 100%. And for the skill and effort I personally put in those keys I absolutely deserve Mythic Raid Gear. YES SIR !

I would even claim that some keys are much harder than Mythic Raiding. And that is why there is so much complaining in M+… Because the crap we got is only so we dont ruin the gear progression of raiders.

WoW is WoW. And M+ is infinitely scalable. We got difficulties for everyone.

We just cant shoe-horse people into being stuck at some level. We need to give them something to aspire to. Not some wall they know it will take months of failing to overcome.

That is not the way it works.

14

Lol, just lol. You’re confused about the proof needed for either side.

The claim was “100% of the community”. 100% means 100%, 100 out of 100. If you find one player who doesn’t agree, it no longer is 100%…at best it can be rounded up to 100%.

But now the best part, you say that Nellja isn’t everyone. Correct, because only one player was needed to disprove that statement. While you still need to supply support that everyone agrees…practically impossible…

Just do everyone a favor…do not ever talk in name of everyone. Simple.

Also I don’t mind the peril at all. It made me be a bit more wary about deaths / avoidable damage, and it avoids death runs. Pretty good deal, imo.

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15

Turns out that you are all mathmaticians now.

Think of the consequences of your claim. So, because 1 player (or a small minority) like the affix… it means that Blizzard has to keep it? Just to make Nellja happy?

You know that is nonesense. And you know what I meant with “everyone but you”.

I meant that if 95% of the players don’t like one thing and 5% do (or invent yourself ANY combination of numbers, dosent matter) it means Blizzard should delete the affix.

In fact, if 51% of players dont like it and 49% of players do, then you STILL have to change the affix.

And the fact that you are so finiky with numbers for no productive reason… tells me everthing about the weight of your argument.

CONCLUSION: Get rid of the affix. PERIOD.

16

No, hence why people in discussions should supply actual decent arguments. So you can actually discuss the subject, learn something (other views, experiences, …) and iterate over your own opinion.

This is impossible when we just shout “everyone literally agrees” → “no, not everyone” → “yes but it is literally true” → “no it’s not factually correct” → “you know what we mean”. No, we don’t know what you mean because … we don’t know why “everyone” dislikes it…we don’t even know how many dislike it.

I really don’t.

The problem here is:

  • We don’t know the percentages
  • We will never know the percentages
  • The percentages are based on nothing (why not 93 or 97%?)
  • Why is the only option then to delete it?

I am gonna have to point to you that this is not a democracy. The majority does not decide.

What? You literally stated that the OP was “factually” correct. That I responded on, and now I’m in the fault for doing so? This is some mental gymnastic…

And the weight of my argument? … yeah, ok man, keep spouting around that everyone hates the affix…much better, mate.

Conclusion: your opinion doesn’t reflect everyone’s opinion. Hopefully you’ll get that at some point…

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17

Hey, that’s me. I used to push close to title range during s3 of dragonflight. I cba to play this season. Timed 4 +12s and I’m done. This season is simply not fun, for me.

Crafting gear took forever, because you needed a weekly cap of gilded crests to craft a 636 item.
The scaling is STILL scuffed on Live Server.
Don’t get me started on spec balance and community perception, especially community perception.
Depletion needs to go for good. Homework keys teach NOTHING. I learned more grinding 14 +28 everbloom keys than doing that amount of +27 everbloom.
Drums should get buffed to BfA levels.
Healer dispells should get homogenized.
Revert aoe stop nerfs.

Blizzard should use season 3 of dragonflight as a standard. It was the best season, aside from obvious spec balance problems.