As of phase 3 release we are in a strange situation with Ulduar 25N and 25HM.
Nobody wants to attend to Ulduar 25N as same 232 loot can be acquired in 10ppl Ulduar and 10ppl ToC normal with trice as little effort.
Barely anybody is willing to do Ulduar 25HM for 1 item per boss even with skips is way too little of a reward when ToGC 25 offers better loot in 60m raid and 4/5 bosses there are way easier than Ulduar that offers but a few BiS of this phase.
This is due to ToGC bosses dropping all pieces of appropriate ilvl gear, but Ulduar bosses killed in HM dropping only 1 252 ilvl item from the list of 5-6. Current state of Ulduar loot is worse than situation in Vanilla’s 40ppl raids, where 40 players shared 3-4 items making it 1 item per 10ppl effort, but in Ulduar it is 1 item per 25ppl effort.
Old Ulduar loot drop order has to go, due to changes made to 10ppl loot. Instead I propose following for 25ppl Ulduar:
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2-3 items of 252 ilvl and only 1 item of 232 ilvl per 25 boss kill in Hard mode.
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2-3 items of 232 ilvl and only 1 item of 252ilvl per boss kill in normal mode, that has hard mode loot table.
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The loot of bosses that have no hard modes should remain the same.
This loot change will give Ulduar one last bump of relevancy and people who are still collecting their Valanirs a chance to finish it, before all raiders loose interest in 25ppl Ulduar due to loot system it has.
2 Likes
That’s a good idea, but people are really burnt out of Ulduar, barely no one wants to go there after that ominous and extremely long P2 which killed so many guilds.
1 Like
Or replace the normal 25 player normal loot entirely with hardmode items if you kill the boss in hardmode, as if the boss was set to “heroic” only dropping heroic items.
If anyone wants to get a 25 normal item, theres the 10 man version for that.
10 ppl version doesn’t drop Valanirs pieces. 25 normal does, but that doesn’t motivate anyone but healers to visit it on alts and fresh characters. If 25ppl normal dropped 1 252 item per boss that has such items in their loot table, that would be more than enough for PUGs to go there besides Ulduar 10/HM.
Nope. Already enough reason to not do Uld 25 hardmode without further free loot in normal 25. It’s 25 hardmode loot, not 25 normal loot.
I got all the loot from 25HM I need on my main. In fact my paladin is 25 ToGC 4/5 and killing Anub in normal, getting more and better loot than Ulduar 25HM. The sole reason I want 1 252 item to drop from normal mode is because in couple of months ICC 10 normal will drop 251 loot in masses. With it released there would be zero hope of gathering Ulduar 25ppl raid to finish Valanirs and our guild has pretty long queue for it.
Blizzard won’t do that but at the rate we see those threads you can just skip middle steps and already ask for hard mode gear for badges, or 15g per piece from a vendor.
If someone can’t be asked to do 1hour Ulduar run then they can settle with 2nd best item in some slots, it’s not a big deal.
I would agree with you if not the TOGC loot piñata bosses (especially Jaraxxus) excluding Anub, that drop 258 #1 BiS loot left and right. You are talking about previous phase loot and ICC 10 ppl normal will soon surpass it in case of accessibility.
It’s nice you have your loot, but it doesn’t change that hardmode 25 man loot should drop only in hardmode 25 man. If your guild cannot farm 25 hardmode then you can do normal for it - frags drop in normal too.
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My guild is doing HM only in 20ppl setup, because it is boring to do it on normals and we are jsut finished 3rd Valanirs with 1 to go, however we have very bad attendance despite EPGP bonuses for Ulduar 25 HM. Someone from our casters still dreams of Mimiron HM ring that never really dropped in 203 days. The situation wasn’t so desperate if we saw 3 drops of 252 ilvl gear in HM instead of 1. Yet we had descend amount of Flares as from 8 casters only 1 is still flareless, but that is purely randomness.
I am open to a proposal of how to make Ulduar 25N relevant among PUGs, whom I am trying to organise each week, without changing how loot works in Ulduar, so people can finish their Valanirs without resolving to GDKPs that have only one reason to visit Ulduar 25 and they do it only in HMs.
I mean if you’re in a guild that actually cares about healer progression, they’ll run Ulduar HMs regardless of the current content.
Actually, ToGC don’t drop all items. There is only one trinket for each role.
Even if you add 10man, hunters will be missing a 2nd trinket.
Hunters are missing nothing as they can buy 3rd best for just 50 badges of triumph and use the greatness card and never set their foot in Ulduar 25
Well Blizzard changed they situation with the Ulduar 25 loot, allrigh! Fresh from the PTR:
Trinkets, Rings, Necklaces, and Cloaks from 25-Player Ulduar Hard Modes have been added to the Deflier’s Scourgestone vendors in Dalaran for 60 Defiler’s Scourgestones each.
Not only did they killed 25 normal in phase 3, but now are killing 25 HM as well so there no reason to go there besides Yogg+0 for the head mount. If your Semi/PUG group can’t kill Yogg in hardest +0 mode, well too bad for you, because as of right now you do not have anything to interest them in helping you acquire missing Valanir pieces. Even GDKPs will see significant drop in people doing 25HM last boss skip runs with everyone waiting to get their phase 3 BiS at the beginning of phase 4 for dozen of Gamma heroic dungeon runs.
So, Blizzard, how will you fix your loot progression mismanagement? You offered shortcuts for everyone even for melee DPS with their “new” legendary weapon in the next phase, except the healers.
Valanyr is also purchaseable apparently. (jk)
1 Like
Ha ha I saw it in guild discord in memes section. Ofc it is fake.
Why should every healer get a valanyr? I couldn’t even dream of getting one of the 2 available atieshes out to 15+ casters per raid reasonably contesting for one. Why, we didn’t even form a mage one for one of the 7 man mage team until well into tbc where we forced one to happen for class lead through pure force of will and offering T3 to pugs.
Frankly, it’s ridiculous now majority of helaers and soon to be melees have a shot at a Legendary while casters begged their raid to keep doing Vezax hm for a non-phase-1 trinket until the announcemment last week.
Today’s “gamers” just want everything.
Why should every Mage, Warlock, Shadow Priest, Moonkin and Elemental shaman (phase 3 BiS1 BTW) get Flare? A trinket that is supposed to be 239 ilvl but got buffed up to 252 making it very relevant at ICC launch. Yet caster DPS are getting it merely for a few evening runs in new Gamma heroics in phase 4.
On the other hand Blizzard made situation for healers gathering Valanir worse. Lets compare how Valanir was gathered in 2009 original Wrath and Wrath Classic in 2023 first by looking at ilvl changes of Ulduar loot:
| Loot source |
Original |
Classic Phase 2 |
Classic phase 3 |
| Ulduar 10 |
219 |
225 |
232 |
| Ulduar 10 Hardmode |
226 |
239 |
239 |
| Algalon 10 |
226 |
239 |
239 |
| Ulduar 10 Hardmode Weapons |
232 |
245 |
245 |
| Ulduar 25 |
226 |
232 |
232 |
| Ulduar 25 Weapons |
232 |
239 |
239 |
| Ulduar 25 Hardmode |
239 |
252 |
252 |
| Algalon 25 |
239 |
245 |
245 |
| Valanir |
245 |
258 |
258 |
In 2009 players naturally visited Ulduar 10HM and 25 Normal that had same ilvl loot to gear up for ToC 10. Key factor here was that 25 normal gave all loot, while 10HM only 1 item. With ICC patch players got easier access to 232 gear via new ICC 5ppl dungeons in heroic mode, that gave em acess to ToGC 10 / ToC 25 and eventually ICC 10 normal. So you can say that PUGs abandoned Ulduar 25 Normal only with ICC release.
In 2023 phase 3 not only Ulduar 10 normal has same loot as Ulduar 25 normal, making it already obsolete in phase 3, but Ulduar 10 HM gives better loot that Ulduar 25 Normal and still drops 232 ilvl allowing skipping of ToC 10 strait to ToGC 10 and ToC 25 for 245 loot. Now with 252 loot promised for new Heroic protocol Gamma dungeons currency even Ulduar 25HM seems pointless allready in phase 3.
However Valanir is still going to be usefull with it’s 258 ilvl and proc. That would segregate healers who got it as prio in guilds In phase 2 or in GDKPs from those who only started gathering it in phase 3 and weren’t able to finish it due to guild relaxing in ToGC and with Blizzard offering so much shortcuts for gearing for DPS and Tanks unlike in original.