The overall kit of sub rogue is extremely overpowered in PVP:
Shadowy duel
Smoke bomb
“Bubble” cloak of shadows
Multiple pseudo-interrupts with disarm/gouge/cheap shot
Infinite resets
Half of the damage is shadow or with high armor penetration
5 or 6 damage mitigation mechanics (blackjack, feint, deadened nerves, cheat death, fade to nothing, ephemeral bond)
etc.
I remember an old dev interview, a few years ago, when somebody from Blizz said that they came to the conclusion that unless rogues oneshot, people don’t play them. So if that’s the case, fair enough. Have them oneshot, but either take the utility, or the survivability.
Something needs to change. It doesn’t make sense for sub rogue to be more tanky than warrior, death knight and paladin and to have the best utility and damage
I agree, some of them should be removed or nerfed. This toolkit also makes them 3 steps ahead over other classes in rated bgs since they can do everything - kill someone fast, steal a base, defend a base, stop people from rotating between bases, prevent someone from dying or on the opposite - make a window for someone to die. This is becoming ridiculous due to other classes being unable to do all these roles all together
While never dying themselves because when they run out of cooldowns they just vanish, seemingly completely immune to any kind of dot breaking their stealth including bleeds.
People will always find ways to cry about rogue, half of the defenses home boy mentioned are so minor or just see 0 use as it is, feint is alwaya replaced eith cheat death fyi so feint isnt even uses unless you play outlaw cause you can reliable maintain it.
Its definitely strong i agree but with how often i see people sit things like shadow blades with basically no mitigation im reluctant to agree nerfing them more yet
For subtlety I think the second vanish needs to go…
Probably the cloak shouldn’t make you immune to melee also.
Very nice quality of life to be able remove dots though…
Find other spec that can all in defs or just duel not to be peeled.
Find other spec that can facetank damage and not care that much because he has 2x Vanish, Evasion, Cloak and then eventually kill in one go without Shadowy Blades.
I always found out funny that the thing that holds sub rogues back in lobbys is often people just not letting the rogue play the game for the other DPS. For example, if you dont let a rogue sap or if you use your stuns, you’ll probably throw the round.
But if you do let the rogue sap and if you just remove your stun from your action bar, theres a decent chance the rogue will sap into triple cheapshot someone and basically solo all 6 rounds.
What other specs are like that? Where playing your class is often the wrong thing to do? Affliction when its overtuned and they beg you not to use sheep?
“Woah, I didn’t use my stormbolt that round at all - im such a good team mate, S tier player” - me any time I get a sub rogue lobby
Remove a charge of Vanish, and buff Deepening Shadows to maybe 1.5 sec, or at least bump it up to 1 sec…
I would be happy with that. We lose 15 seconds of Shadowdust cdr, due to a charge of Vanish going out the window, and we get a more even tempo in our playstyle.
Sure the Shadowdust cdr is really strong, and the Cloak honor talent is a bit to much tbh. (Kinda needed atm to counter Assa Rogues and stuff though…)
But there are some games where i find myself in a wheelchair, with Dance on 50 sec cd energy starved to hell, with a Warrior or some other melee in my booty smashing me down.
Deepening Shadows reduces Dance cd by 0.5 sec for every CP i spend. I got no super quick way to fill my cp bar, and when i do i can reduce my dance cd by 3.5 sec, if i play both Deeper and Secret stratagem.
It takes some time until you are stuck in this situation, due to a lot of tools of course.
But when you are finally drained to that point, you don’t even have a chance to recover, because you will die before you get the time to.
Sub in it’s current state is really strong and fun to play imo. But if they would bump that Deepening Shadows up to maybe 1-1.5 seconds instead, Sub would achieve Nirvana.
Throw the Second charge of Vanish away even, because playing the spec would be in a completely balanced harmony at that point.
