Sub rogue: 1st Shadowstep should be baseline

Classes Rogue
1

Before the new talent system subtlety rogues always had 2 shadow steps. Now, choosing the 1st shadow step in the subtlety tree is a significant DPS loss in most cases.

Whereas Outlaw get their grappling hook for free Subtlety and Assassination have to spend a talent point to get their 1st shadow step.

Essentially this means that you would have to dump a DPS talent in order to get your 2nd shadowstep, which will be quite the waste in most scenarios.

I propose you remove the first shadowstep from the subtlety talent tree and make shadow step (1/2) baseline for subtlety.

2

Or you just play with one shadow step?
Just like alot of classes lost utility/movement.

Also, we miss 10 points atm.

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3

I am looking at level 70 builds. Most classes seem to gain utility/movement, not lose it at level 70.

The standard M+ build would probably look something like this (Not entirely sure about the general rogue tree though):

BUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARIJJJCAIRSSSSSSSCkWakkEkGkQSSSaBAAAA

This means that you would forego a point in one of the following choices when choosing the 1st shadowstep:

  1. Stiletto Staccato or Shadow Techniques
  2. Premediation
  3. 1/2 Planned Execution

The trade-off between utility is fair, like shadowstep vs Night terrors or shot in the dark. However, all the 3 aforementioned choices will most likely result in a much higher dps gain than a 2nd shadowstep and will therefore also be the talents of choice when weighed against shadowstep.

That said, not having a 2nd shadowstep on a subtlety rogue feels really bad.

I am certainly aware that sacrifices have to be made when spending your talent points, but shadowstep should not be one of them.

4

Last I checked Outlaw has to spec for hook to get it too.

Either way, the loss of a shadowstep can also directly translate to damage lost. Its a choice you make depending on the situation at hand. Thats the whole point of these new talent trees :wink:

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5

Oh yeah, you´re right regarding grappling hook.

Yes, this is included in my analysis. However, as far as I´ve seen grappling hook is an obvious choice among the options from Outlaw due to how the tree is designed, whereas shadowstep is not.

On that note, I also think shadowstep in the general tree should grant another charge of grappling hook rather than shadowstep for Outlaw rogues.

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6

I like that a lot

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7

I’d love that.
But it’d probally be to much…
Rogue already has a ton of utility and movement, making a 2nd hook charge might be to much. A shadowstep is not neccessarly “free” movement since It’s a fixed spot, behind the enemy. (That’s also why I never use it :man_shrugging: )

8

I always preferred shadowstep over grappling hook, but I can see the appeal to being able to choose your exact spot. Remember you can use shadowstep on allies aswell. Anyway, I just think it seems annoying to have two differeny keybinds for something that does almost the same thing.

9

Hook is a bit of a double edged sword. On the one hand you can determine exactly where you want to go but that also demands the user to stay well informed as to the situation not only at the destination but also everything that may be in the way in a direct line to that destination.

Whereas with Shadowstep all you really have to do is make sure you’re in range and that you trust the person you use it on. Whatever is between you and the target is irrelevant as shadowstep functions as a teleport

And I think thats great honestly, they both have advantages and disadvantages and using them right rewards you whereas using each of them carelessly can get you killed in their own ways :slight_smile:

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