First and foremost: I am by no means the very best Rogue in the world. I do have some experience tho, both in high rated pvp and in mythic/CE raiding and M+. The reason for my post is the current state of sub rogues in PVE. I find it very, very annoying that this spec has been flawed/unplayable in PVE for well over an expansion. The recent rise of Assasination in PVE single target damage is a very welcome change indeed but it does not change the fact that Sub output is subpar. It would be no problem to multispec between sub/sin/outlaw I know that we have a niche for each type of content with all 3 specs. But the fact that playing Sub requires a completely different gear-set in regards to the desired stats as opposed to Outlaw/Sin is not very inviting to start multispeccing. Right now the only content where Sub is still ‘‘good’’ is in pvp. I would very much like to see changes to make us able to compete on the PVE ladders. Give us some cleave damage for example? At this time it is fully non existent. Or at the very least make something scale nicely with haste so we can multispec effectively without having to farm every single gearslot twice. It is honestly an utter disgrace that a spec that so many people enjoy and love and play to the very bleeding cutting edge when it comes to PVP content is almost forced to respec or play another class entirely when it comes to that same level of content in PVE.
Disclaimer: Yes sub is fine for content that everybody can just step right into. low/medium m+ and a couple of mythic bosses are easily doable as Sub. That however is not the point at all.
I would like to see opinions, maybe if this thread picks up some responses we can discuss the actual possible solutions/nitty gritty and try to reach out to the rogue class developer with some constructive suggestions.
Sub rogue PVE has been discussed quite extensively in this forum. I think what players have concluded and discussed so far is:
Our ST is embarassing when it is outperformed by classes that also excel at cleave and AOE damage.
Our cleave is obviously garbage.
Our AOE is much better than what people give it credit for, especially on packs that are 5 or more, making sub rogue more viable for higher M+ keys than what people may think.
Sub rogues and rogues in general don’t bring raid utility and on par with their relatively low DPS there is little reason to pick one.
Some solutions that have been discussed are:
Buff the single target damage, making it a top contender in regards to ST damage rather than middle of the pack, since our ST needs to carry us on Cleave bosses as well.
Give Sub rogue better cleave damage, however I personally disagree with this, because it would take out the flavour and Single target core of sub rogue that the specc is famous for.
Now you have also mentioned to give sub rogues the ability to scale nicely with haste. Again, not something I am sure that I would favour, since it could require Sub rogues to have different gearsets for mythic+ and PVP if the ‘haste’ would have the same effects as it does now, but more powerful. Then again, if it means that you could run with nightstalker instead of shadow focus it might not be that bad.
Give rogues/sub rogues a raid utility like a (example) debuff from a poison that increases the critical strike or critical strike damage against a target by 5%.
How could sub rogue ST damage be buffed?
Buff damage done outside of shadowdance
Damage buffs in general, such as buffing rupture.
replace SnD with something more interesting and less of a chore. Make SnD passive and add an ability that gives rogues a situational button, e.g. ‘deal shadow damage instead of physical damage for the next 20 seconds’.
Edit:
I am sure I missed some stuff and that there are other good ideas and remarks to be made.