Suggestion for dungeons

Community General Discussion
1

Hello,

This suggestion focuses on the principles for designing dungeon mobs and their mechanics.

General Combat Principles
In a normal pack fight, the tank should be able to survive for 20 seconds (not infinite) when using standard defensive abilities.

The healer should be able to sustain the group with cheap heals under normal conditions. However, healers have both low-cost and high-cost healing spells. If the situation escalates and they frequently rely on expensive heals, they will run out of mana (OOM) quickly, leading to a group wipe.

Universal Mechanics
Environmental hazards: Standing in fire reduces primary stats by 10% for 15 seconds, stacking with repeated exposure. And taking small amount of damage.

DPS:
Failed interrupts should penalize DPS players (Not healer) with significant consequences, examples:
5+ second stun for targeted dps player (cannot be dispelled)
The enemy mob heals to full health if an interrupt is missed.
50% damage reduction for 10+ seconds on targeted dps player (cannot be dispelled)
Successful interrupts grant 12 seconds immunity from being targeted for stuns or debuffs (20 seconds for caster, due to their longer CD).

Healer:
Failed dispels inflict heavy damage on the party, forcing the healer to use costly spells, accelerating mana depletion (OOM).
Efficient dispels allow the healer to maintain cheap healing spells, ensuring sustained mana usage.

Tank:
Some mobs should have Brutal Hit or Mega Fire Ball (MFB), a cast-time ability requiring active mitigation (e.g., Warrior’s Shield Block).
If the tank fails to mitigate: Brutal Hit/MFB inflicts ~75% of the tank’s total HP.
If the tank properly mitigates: Brutal Hit/MFB deals ~5% of total HP instead.

Ofc. Boss fights will have their own “dance”.

Dungeons should be a mix of fights, like. (Relative to time used)
15-35% one pack pulls. (Brutal Hit happen and interrupts needed)
15-35% big aoe pulls.
15-35% strategic CC pulls. (Sheep. sap, trap etc, due to too many Brutal Hits and interrupts needed for group to survive).
30% boss fights.

The idea is basically that each roll/player gets the consequences for their own failures. And have more variety in fights.
I know healers suffer for bad tank. Not sure how to punish tanks for not using mitigation.

1 Like
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Punishes healer because they will take damage while they can’t move and will make fight last longer making it harder for healer.

Also, which of the 3 dps are we stunning here?

See above.

Design intent: Don’t punish healer
Primary outcome: Punishes healer

Welcome to game design on the forums folks.

3 Likes
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I agree DPS need more punishments, tanks and healers don’t need any more. We have the DPS, they are our punishment xD.

I think damage reduction alone for messing up a mechanic or ignoring a targeted spell is enough. They live for details, they would soon play better

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Random one.

Well. Too much failure from any roll will end in a wipe. Don’t see your logic.
I’m not thinking of handing out free wins here.

The punishment is they get low on damage meters.
Or the healing too full, mobs not dying.

When mobs don’t die, it’s bad dps.

Interesting number of posts. I guess you prefer to qq rather than brain storming solutions?

5

make it 20% if dps are not using their defensives while defensives are available

I think this was not a perfect cook, but I like it. They should punish DPS players for their mistakes, not the healers.

I also want a suggestion that tanks are unable to get heals from healer or DPS players, this way healer’s life would be easier and tanks would have more fun to be fully responsible for their health.

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Ah yea that old chestnut. Hurr durr look at your post count!

Doesn’t make your idea less terrible. “Lets stun the dps for 5 seconds so they can’t move out of ground effects, frontals or do mechanics”. Totes not a healer punishment though. :smirk:

2 Likes
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Why do you feel this is needed?

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8

Free wins are fun.

Who cares about damage meters anyway.

I’ll gladly take the micro break from gaming. :sweat_smile:

To me it sounds like you’re just bitter and want others to suffer.
Your ideas sound vindictive rather than constructive. So… No thank you.

1 Like
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What you are doing is making the dungeons even harder . Key depletion ,wasted time are already punishments enough

10

Just put a mob called “depleter” in the dungeon.

Fail to interupt?
Your personal key is reduced a level

11

The intent beneath the suggestions are good, but the implementations suggested are not.

For one, survivability of tanks on their own is fine if it extends to more than entire minutes, as long as it means that being forced to do that cripples their performance in dps. In other words, if a tank is forced to use strong defensives because the healer is felled or something, they should not be able to become more sturdy while not also reducing their damage output.

The idea behind low- and high-cost spells for healers is something I’d like to see return as well, but many posters on the forums go against the idea of mana breaks. In scaling content it is inevitable that the healer will reach a point where they will have to spam the strongest/most expensive spells, which means that mana breaks will be too frequent. I see nothing wrong with that (in fact I consider such a mechanic to be absolutely necessary), but many forumers do.

Punishment for dps should penalize the dps only if it’s a personal mechanic that the player failed at. For example standing in fire should reduce their output, but not add burden to the healer. An idea I had is that if a player got hit by something they shouldn’t and (under the current system) would receive 5 million damage, then they don’t get hit by that as much (they get hit for like 1 million) and the remaining 4 million damage is added as a damage nerf to that player (ie. they deal 75% reduced damage until 4 million damage has been blocked that way)
– Now someone will point out that this extends the duration of battles and therefore punishes the healer. This is false. It punishes the entire group, not the healer. The reduction in damage output means that the group gets close to enrage timers or M+ timer expiration. This is no different than being in a group with someone who can perform mechanics properly but isn’t good at pumping damage.

Finally, any mechanic that does not require a specific player to perform should not punish one player but a bit of everyone. A failed interrupt should punish the whole group. A failed dispel should punish the whole group because it’s not only the healer that can remove a debuff (mages can ice block any debuff, therefore debuffs are not healer-exclusive mechanics)

I won’t go into details in the rest because I’ve already posted a wall-of-text that most players will not even read.

1 Like
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The punishment of a failed interrupt is that the cast goes off.

And M+ is infinite going up. You can not say “a tank should survive x seconds on it’s own”. That completely depend on keylevel.

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This already exists. Its called Skill Expression.

If the tank plays well he can survive for 40 minutes on his own using standard defensive abilities. If he dosent play well he will get 1-shot by the 1st mob of the dungeon. Same for healers. Its how it is today. And its how it should be.

This is equivalent to removing HP.

I know where you are going with this, but you got it wrong. If the DD stands on the fire and does less DPS, those mobs you are fighting will live for longer. And if they live for longer, there will be more party damage, more tank damage.

So the healer will inevitably have to heal things one way or the other. And if you gave me a choice, I prefer to heal the fire.

Because if that Paladin from Priory lives longer, I will have to heal 1 more Divine Toll and that hurts more than a couple of ticks of a fire.

Kicks should have the same treatment as Dispels: If you use your kick and dont interrupt something, it does not incur a CD. It still incurs the GCD though.

And people will say: Well you can macro that into everything… well… sure. People could do that. But that “AoE volley” will have to be kicked. So it would still be a bad idea.

WHY? The #1 problem in keys is not DDs not kicking. Its 3 DDs kicking the same target and then running out of kicks for the next one. This solves it with out such convoluted mechanics.

Why? I dont understand. Someone gets a dot and its a nuke on that person unless dispelled. Why do you want to add even more AoE?

Plus. Dispelling stuff dosent work like that.

Lets say you do DFC. The first packs. They are constantly spamming debuffs on people. And dispel has a 8s CD. If a person gets a debuf. And you have 4s left on your CD. Sometimes its easier to power-heal that individual, and use the dispel on the next person that gets a debuf. Its less damage to heal.

So no. Against this mechanic. Dispels are FINE.

All blizzard has to do is make sure to be consistent. They have to prevent situations like the one from S1. Where the TYPE of dispel made a huge difference. For example, last boss of Arakara. It made ZERO sense that it was poison. It should have been Venom or something no healer can dispel. And the Disease nukes in BH in DF should have been magic, not a diseases.

So basically, ALL healers can dispel big nukes. Or none can. That is all blizzard has to do.

Already exists. Its called “tank busters”.

NO. If I wanted to play slow and “strategic” with minibosses all over the place I would Raid. Cause that is what the raid is.

Also NO. The success in keys depends on TEAMWORK. Anything blizzard does should be to incentivize, or, facilitate teamwork.