I’m sorry but Proving Grounds won’t teach a tank how to do M+ routes, raid tactics or communicate properly (Yes BDK’s I am looking at you!)
Proving grounds is totally useless if you ask me… I am glad they removed that mess.
Didn’t say it would, but it’d atleast teach them the very basic functions of their class/spec.
Levelling doesn’t matter in Wow, it’s just a time gate they put you through before you fan get to the stuff you want to play, combined with scaling, no player is ever put into a position where they actually need to learn their class, learn what gear stats are better for them.
And because there’s no challenge that they need to overcome while levelling, they do need proving grounds, or something similar.
That’s true but the classes (and spec’s) in Wow are so braindead simple these days it is a miracle if you reach lvl 60 without knowing your spec/class.
Even just reading up on a guide will teach your 90%, the rest 10% is muscle memory.
Assuming that person can read a guide (I can’t).
Some of us need to learn how to play a game by playing the game, and I do think that’s the best position for the game to put the player into.
Like I said, while levelling the game does sod all to challenge you, hell even at endgame the basic mobs don’t do much to challenge you.
Because the games in that state, an endgame tutorial of some kind is absolutely important as atleast a stepping stone between doing world content and running M+
You what. You can’t read a guide? Why?
You can obviously read English, so what stops you from reading guides?
I have ADHD, if something is boring to read, as guides are, the info doesn’t go in, and I struggle translating the words I read into how it applies to actual gameplay.
I’ve tried guide videos too, they don’t seem to ever be particularly mentally stimulating, either.
Also even if I did read a guide, that’s boring, why copy someone else in a video game?
It’s exactly why i stay out of M+ and raiding, it simply isn’t a fun environment to be in for me with all the pressure to be a really optimal player aswell as remembering mechanics.
When/if they add permanent timewalking rotation’s, I’ll absolutely jump head first into that, but yeah, M+ isn’t for me.
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I can see why people are hostile to you then. You go into content blindly, without having learned it on lower difficulty and then proceed to waste other peoples time, because you don’t know the content at all.
There is no shortage of tanking classes.
Nobody will play it. Warriors, paladins, druids and especially demon hunters do not play their tank spec enough. There’s 10 fury warriors for every prot warrior. Demon hunters are more fun in their tank spec, but people want to pump the charts.
Ew. Awful idea. Fit for some Korean trash MMO that doesn’t care about its own world at all.
The best way to solve an alleged tank shortage is to make tanks the best dps spec to the point where running 4 tanks and a healer is meta.
I literally said I’ve tried running my own low keys lmfao.
You shouldn’t be doing m+ keys if you don’t know the base dungeon…
And how am I to learn the base dungeon when there’s no way to play a scaled up version of a dungeon from WoD or legion before hand?
I’m not stupid, I’d have done a M0 of karazhan/grimrail/docks if there was a way for me to do it, but no, there isn’t, you can only access a scaled up version of those dungeons with a M+ keystone.
But again, I’ve lost all interest in M+, I tried it and it isn’t for me, and that’s fine because Dragonflight looks to be focusing on adding progression systems that aren’t borrowed power/M+ and raiding.
Enjoy your dungeons, i’ll be chilling and fishing with the tuskarr for the next 2 years 
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Read or watch guides. In most dungeons, even the dungeon journal is enough.
For me it was during late legion/early bfa personally
I havn’t touched it again and never will I touch it again
Maybe it has improved, but I’m already entirely nondependant on lfg/lfd and honestly I have 0 interest in finding out wether it has improved and again, entirely nondependant cause have friends/guildies to play with now.
I reckon its the same for a lot of tanks, even if it is better, we either have our own groups or we simply do not want to find out.
Hope I find some solid guildies soon lol, it isn’t necessarily the challenge of M+ or raiding that I don’t like, and it’s completely because of the people I’ve come across in pug groups.
For now though, the Tuskarr are calling my name.
First of all, this.
Second, in BC, I actually like it. Except when trying to play my mage, of course. 
People treat tanks with respect. Avoiding the spinup cycle of toxicity to emerge.
Also, I don’t know about current retail but it also depends on how difficult tanking is.
In BC it’s not rocket science. Proper rotation, taunting when needed (and damage dealers know to stop pumping when they notice), taking care of one or two mechanics per fight. I’d even say it’s more fun, than just pressing Blizzard or Frostbolt from 39 yards behind ad nauseum.
The only issue with tanking (in this environment) doesn’t even apply to retail, namely tanks (and healers) don’t earn gold at all.
So: maybe the retail game is too complex, and spread kindness.
As for the second, make a few friends (BTag is available), ask them for runs.
Btw, I’m sure that raids requiring fewer tanks isn’t an actual problem.
I don’t want to raid tank, but I’m happy to do it in dungeons. I’d bring my dps or healer to raids. Surely I’m not alone.
Definitely true for leveling dungeons. I like to play through with my mage first.
Shouldn’t be a problem for established (max level) players, though.
As for your later comment, I seriously recommend rolling a new character and just going through one of the expansions as tank. Especially with the scaling, at level 10-15 you still don’t have many abilities and they are relatively more impactful.
I wish there was lack of tanks, the people have so many options that they make me wait in queue for a 15+ for more than 30 minutes.
As for raids, as long as someone lists FRESH run you see they already have 2 tanks in there.
I did recently level a vengeance DH through dungeons, and whilst I think the scaling is a little off, some of the dungeons did make me use my limited tool kit as best I can, it was probably the most mentally engaged I’ve been in a dungeon instance while levelling in retail, some harder than any normal or heroic i’d done in SL (which is what I want, just without the M+ system)
Especially Iron Docks, the healer we had had to walk us through that like a drill sergeant, but we pulled through together and it was a lot of fun.
I want that at endgame, really hard dungeon challenges where the main reward is simply the fact that you even managed to do it, and M+ really doesn’t do that because you go in expecting to finish, and finish it as fast as possible, plus you can’t just consistently tackle the challenge until you beat it because of the timer and the fact the key loses progress.
One thing I really liked in SL was the noodle mount you could get for clearing heroic plaguefall solo, it’s not that hard anymore, but if you wanted that mount early on you’d have to be damn good with your class, I want more fun challenges like that, both for solo and for groups.
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I mean, I have ADHD and ADD myself.
All I do is go to the Rotation part and just look what are my “important” skills and read those skills ingame, then just press them however…
Guide says for example Press A then B then C.
Even with ADHD and ADD I know to press A then B then C 
Ain’t no way anybody actually reads the entire guide… That is just waaay to much useless information.
That also is because Prot Warrior is a trashcan fire.
Alot of us rerolled to BDK (Including me lmao) just because of the unbalance in tanking classes.
Imagine getting declined at 3k io for a +15 key simply because you are a prot warrior…
The point is that half the classes can tank. There is no shortage of tank classes, but people don’t want to play tanks.
There are many reasons, of course, not just pumping, but also tanks are kind of expected to lead M+ runs and personally this is why I quit tanking. If I don’t start tanking right at the beginning of an expansion, there’s no way I will keep up with the learning curve.
Instead of making tinkers, Blizzard should simply make engineering good again.
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