The problem: lack of tanks in pugs. the ratio of tanks to dps in raids is like 1:7 but in dungeons it is 1:3.
proposed (partial) solution: give all classes ( i mean all classes) the “tanker” spec. the character transform into e.g. tanking robot with ilvl equal to the character ilvl. easy to play but not so capable ( you can tank up to low to mid M+).
why?
1- more people can tank m+ but join raids as dps. fixing the tank to dps ratio mentioned above.
2- because (a) most classes that can tank don’t have ranged dps spec and (b) melee dps spots in raids are limited , giving ranged dps classes the ability to tank low to mid level contents can contribute to fixing the ratio disparity.
They wont do that .
First this will involve a lot of work.
Second, it will be pain to balance 12(?) tanks,now we have 6 and unbalance is real.
Also, this wont solve anything. People that wanna tank will tank already. People that dont wanna wont do it no matter what .
Look back into expansion, when monk and DH was added . Each expansion of “new tank” had same issue with lack of tank, because mostly people that already played tank will play tank on those new classes/specs.
Only very small % of players will actualy play and stay playing that new tank spec, and its most likely noth worth resources
The lack of tanks has absolutely zero to do with how many classes can do it.
It’s because its a role with responsibility that gets blamed for almost everything that goes wrong in a pug (next in line the healer). This makes pug tanks rare.
Swing and a miss if I’m honest. You completely missed the point.
The fundamental problem is the percieved role the tank needs to take.
Most won’t bother with that.
All MMO’s usually have low amount of tanks, healers. And a tons of DPS.
Usually also because DPS classes are more fun to quest with
FFXIV also have a tank and healer shortage. It’s even bigger now with all the refugees.
The reason there’s less tanks is because it’s a position that invites more pressure, and most players are too scared to try it because of how people normally respond to a tank who’s learning.
I played Wow for 7 years and never tanked, then FFXIV taught me how to do it, and now I main it here on Wow.
But the key difference between both games is in FFXIV generally party members won’t run in and pull if you don’t, they let you go at your own pace (apart from healers that get cocky using rescue to drag you along lol), where as in Wow they absolutely will run in and pull everything if you aren’t fast enough and then they complain at either the healer for not healing them or at you as the tank for not taking aggro.
(I’m generalising, this absolutely does not apply to everyone, I’ve met some pretty chill people who didn’t mind a wipe or two)
Wow really needs to update and bring Proving grounds into the spotlight.
You also need to know the raid tacts well. That alone means there’ll be less tanks no matter what as most people wanna snowball with the group. M+ and knowing all the shortcuts is even worse.
I remember I tanked like once on lfr Wrathion because it was easy, but some mechanics are more demanding.
Yeah, and wiping is so damn punishing in Wow that people are scared to put themselves in a position where they can be the cause.
I do think that LFR should be pumped up to normal but have res restrictions removed.
Make it a good environment for learning in.
No one’s gonna learn anything if they spend the whole fight dead on the floor or if they get kicked from the instance.
Like people said, I think the reluctance to tank is not caused by classes not having a tank specialisation, but by the tank role being:
most demanding in terms of knowledge of the fight mechanics, since you have to know how to position the boss in some fights, when to blow your defensives etc. and most mechanics affect you in some way
people being quick to blame the tank, and the mistakes of the tank impacting the group a lot more than a DPS, whos failure and potential death does not necessarily cause a wipe
Even if we could all turn into some tanker robot, I doubt it would increase the amount of tanks in PvE.
The lack of tanks would most likely be down to two reasons:
1: its the end of an expansion so its low tide season with people playing something else in the wait for pre-patch to the new expansion
2: If you gonna tank in pugs, you have to have thick skin. You will definitely be abused in atleast 1 or 2 keys during the day (Healers are second in line for the chopping block). I have heard from guildies and friends that they have developed a form of “tank-xiety”, which basically describes that they experience anxiety or fear when considering picking up tanking, not cause its difficult to do, but considering all the things that comes along with it.
A tank in M+ pugs gotta memorize all noteworthy mobs in dungeons, plan the routes for the % values, what packs to pull and what can be skipped. Its a high tempo so you gotta keep on trucking to beat the timers.
There is a lot of things that comes along for a tank, meanwhile as a DPS, you just sit back and enjoy the guided tour
Yeah, this is exactly why on the rare occasion I do M+ or a raid I do DPS despite not finding DPS particularly fun.
I love tanking normals and heroics, it’s relatively thought-free and it’s abit of a power fantasy tbh, but then add all the stuff you’ve gotta think about and the pressure others put on you, it really isn’t a pleasant position to be in and I do truly commend any one who can do it, and do it well.
For the record I would love to learn how to tank all that difficult stuff, but that’s the problem, it’s an incredibly hostile environment if you don’t already know how to do it and you don’t have friends to play with who won’t berate you.
Being a tank is like being a manager for a company… When things go wrong like, they are straight in the firing line… Way too much responsibility for some people like, but the small some do enjoy it… I always thought healing was the least rewarding role because if we didnt have the succession of changing there specs over like, then people would be alt dependent… Very much like in vanilla…
Adding more classes to tank on has never ever solved the tanking problem All classes added after vanilla had a tanking spec.
Death knights - Could tank on all 3 specs (later turned to blood)
Monks - Brewmaster
Demon hunter - Vengeance
The problem still exists.
All it does is throw a spanner into the works for people that already tank cause they now have a potentially new meta to worry about.
then it will not fix the tanking problem, because it is purely social
lfd/lfg has become increasingly cutthroat over the last few expacs mostly due to blizzards own design choices (players are just reacting to a game where literally everything is pressing them for time) and a large amount of tanks in that period were posting on the forums on how they simply were not going to do lfg/lfd anymore
tanks being tanks its very easy for them to collect a list of gamers willing to make a dedicated group of players for dungeons, allowing them to bypass the lfg/lfd listings entirely, making the shortage worse.
from what I understood things have not improved in lfd/lfg and I wouldn’t be suprised if to this day there are tanks opting out over bad experiences.
Woah, this is an immensely good idea, actually! Toy-/Vehicle-style subclasses that you can unlock on any of your characters. FF-like form of horizontal progression that WoW still somehow lacks for!
Not just tank, but more. Like, five of them to cover any currently existing role in the game. You could have OP’s GMOD/Shredder machine to play tank, or an unleashed ethereal soul-trader with double swords and teleports to play as melee DPS, some skeletal mage with death spells to do edgy rocker ranged magic, dark ghost glaive throwing Vengeances from Warcraft III as ranged physical, etc. Of course, all should be expected to perform at least slightly worse than any properly dedicated old classes, but still, they could work as an extra option. Wouldn’t that be cool, huh?
Your current item level and basic class abilities should be irrelevant for these classes progression, and their stats should be probably normalised, but still, you could, like, have some five or so special item slots available for them that could change gameplay a bit when filled. Like, different types of wrappings for ethereal or extra hand-cannon for robot-tank pulveriser.
I’d sure love that, because I, personally, don’t play alts a lot.
Tank main here, yeah, absolutely this.
I don’t really have any one to play with so I flat out refuse to do M+, maybe I’d enjoy it if pugs weren’t so hostile.
A tank needs to be able to learn a dungeon, but any time a tank tries to learn a dungeon they get kicked, people leave, and it usually includes verbal abuse too.
Want more tanks? Start being nicer to them and respect the fact that in order to run the content faster, first they need to learn the content.
Even with this idea of other classes having some tank mech, you’d still be putting yourself in the same position.
I’ve known plenty of people who’ve been Blood DK mains or prot paladin mains but have avoided group content because of how other people have historically treated them.
Also - i really wish DPS players would stop pulling packs if a tank is “going too slow” and causing a wipe.
Just a generalisation, there are some nice people I’ve come across in M+ pugs, but by and large it’s a completely and utterly hostile environment.
Where do you even get the “pugs are hostile” from? I’ve encountered 2 people that were hostile since the season started and both were in keys around 20s rather than anything easier. One of them got angry because we didn’t wait for him to start clearing a pack and he dropped on the DPS meters(rofl).
I get it from the fact that I have been in pugs, and they were hostile?
Just because you’ve had a relatively pleasant experience with them doesn’t mean everyone has.
One time I had a healer who was barely keeping me alive but telling me to pull more (spoiler alert, we wiped alot) and complained at me.
I’ve had DPS also tell me to pull more, where they then ran into a bunch of packs, died before I could pull aggro on them all, and then used all sorts of unpleasant language to describe my tanking before either getting me kicked or leaving themselves.
Also tried running my own key, and made sure to note on LFG that it’s a chill run as I was learning.
Started the dungeon, all seemed fine, then the first mistake I made it went from all chill to offensive language because I was struggling on a low key.
So yeah, I’d say pugs, and M+ itself is a generally hostile environment and I lost any and all interest I had in it.
That doesn’t apply to everyone, I did have some nice M+ runs with people that acknowledged there’s a learning curve, but in general it was mostly a very unpleasant experience.
