Suggestion: Weekly Higher Quality Reward WM Activity Quest

[Arkamedix-twisting-nether]

@Vaëyn-ravencrest

How about a weekly higher quality reward wm quest, that is based on your wm wpvp activity across the week? Designed to reward wm consistently on, and actually engaging in wm wpvp activities.

Finnaly a good sugestion. I am amazed that it comes from you. For sure you are the same Vaeyn that says that WM mode is a success? xD

@Vaëyn-ravencrest

A new quest based on weekly wm activity would balance out the reward system based on the wm player types:

1. WPvPers , get rewarded for what they do anyway across a week, but have something more than just the easy conquest bar to fill. Those that resent wm offers, get to feel more rewarded for wm on.
2. PvE/WPvPers will be encouraged to not just have wm on, but engage in more wm activities across the week.
3. PvEers can still wm on/off for the existing lower quality rewards. And types 1 and 2 will still do these lower quests anyway.

Its a good ideea, but there must be a differentiation. I would put a WM activation cd and also a minimum requirment (for example ilvl 370). This way, you give a player a choice to make, talking about choices (right? ), wich he must take responsability for it. Why? Because, now, how WM can be activated and deactivated so easy, everyone can do it according to their needs and how it suits them. And this should be not allowed: you activate WM to complete a pvp quest and after turn off, jobs done. You activate WM and you stick with it, either you like it or not, either you are ganked or not, doesnt matter.
Ilvl requirment should be, because this way, you cull “bad players” and “low level/geared players” , that just come for a free kill and be carried by others. Therefor, if you put a ilvl requirment, you know that you fight againts a player that has at least some “basic” knowledge about combat,pvp,etc. Now, especially in ganks and camping, newbies join, they just hit a curse/dot on a enemy target and wait to be killed by others and get credit of it.

@Vaëyn-ravencrest

My suggestion for a weekly (non raid) quest, based on all wm activities across the week:

• Kill x number of Horde/Alliance.
• Be marked as or loot x number of bounties.
• Loot x number of air drop crates.
• Complete x assaults.
• Fill conquest bar.

Especially randomly get marked. You get randomly marked as assasin and that buff to stay on for 1 day for example. If you die, you loose the acumulated honor/conquest during that week, if you kill players you get a increase stats buff+ extra honor/conquest. Thats a very good ideea. Random marked+WM cd, will make the wpvp enviroment more exiting and responsible.

@Vaëyn-ravencrest

Rewards :

The quality of the reward item can be simply x ilvls higher than the existing wm quests. Blizz can come up with a number that keeps it a participatory reward, without harming other wow game modes. The difficulty level of the quest should be taken into account. If the quest was difficult enough, a decent ilvl could be rewarded.

Maybe even choose a specific item for any slot. Throw in some cp, honor, gold, etc.

And what about an achievement and title for x number of quests completed. Could be a series of achievements, gained at each x number of quests completed milestones.

As rewards, they could add some PVP items (like the dismount thing), wich would increase your PVP strenght. Something like: trinkets that give certain stats for certain number of seconds (but work only in PVP), elixirs,potions, pvp companions that heals/dps or tanks you only in open world pvp fights (not vs mobs), pvp ground mount (like the one from Nagrand) that can be used only when fighting vs players and if you are hit by a monster to be dismounted, and so on. Ofc, the mount and companion to be received only after hard work and achieving some hard achievments (because they boost you a lot). This way, you give a motivation to players to do wpvp. And most important, no gear rewards. You want gear? Go farm, do dungeons, lfr, raids, etc.
One more thing i would add, to make it more rewarding and “exiting”, i would add a mechanic in wich you get kill credit, only if you last hit the enemy player. Not like how is now, you just put a curse/dot on a enemy and let others kill the enemy and you get credit. This way, the competition will be not only between the 2 factions, but also between players from same factions.

@Vaëyn-ravencrest

Other suggestions I’ve seen, like remove bonus, remove aoo, remove pve rewards… there are always drawbacks or complexity that you know blizz won’t like.

Thats the ideea. Removing PVE bonuses from a PVP content, would ballance a lot the PVP enviroment.
As you saw above, i gaved some PVP rewards suggestions that can motivate a lot a player to “start” world pvp content. What we got now, its bollocks, broken and unequal.

@Vaëyn-ravencrest

You are right certain conditions can be built in. Depends on how complex blizz want it. Suspect they don’t want complexity.

They can build any condition. The problem is that they dont want. If they built complex mechanics and conditions for pve raiding, implementing new conditions for PVP is a piece of cake. Especially that it doesnt require so much effort like a raid.

@Coolgroove-defias-brotherhood

If AOO system stays, make an achievement, with some big numbers, that requires AOO to be active, like “Get 500 killing blows and 100 bounties during AOO weeks in Season #”, with a cool transmog item/set as a reward that is not available anywhere else, or a title like “Overwhelmingly sinister” etc (seasonal names). Ofc, achievement for both factions, doesn’t matter who gets a quest, all can do it.
… but it’s not gonna work, because population can stabilize at 10-15% and it would not be possible to complete, hehe.

AOO should be given to both factions or permanently removed from game. You cant give such a quest just to one faction, reasoning that they have less players. Thats bullocks. During last AOO quest, alliance prooved that they have the players numbers. After AOO they prooved that they dont like WM mode. Thatswhy more horde’s keep WM on and less Alliance keep it off. Its not the number of players that alliance lacks, its the number of players willing to participate in WM. Thats the difference and why Blizzard thinks that if they give to one faction free items, they can convince players to participate.

@Ternezia-blackmoore

Blizzard should make invasions happen every 3 hours for example.

I agree. The time between invasions is too big. 3 hours is the perfect cd for invasions.

But ofc, our dreams combined, wont be satisfied by Blizzard. I am sure that nobody cares what we want/suggest/like. I would like that this topic to become reality in game, but i am very sceptical.

[Coolgroove-defias-brotherhood (Coolgroove)]

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

but there must be a differentiation. I would put a WM activation cd and also a minimum requirment (for example ilvl 370). This way, you give a player a choice to make, talking about choices (right? ), wich he must take responsability for it. Why? …

You know the main difference between your suggestions and any other player who really enjoys War Mode and WPvP for what it is - unscripted sandbox freedom - is?

You are constantly trying to make up some rules, put players inside some box and script what they can and cannot do.

And that means - you really don’t understand what WPvP is. Unscripted sandbox nature of freedom without rules, where anything goes and anybody can do anything, allows for someone without rules and someone with rules and someone with some other rules - to clash together and have unlimited fun as long as they want to and how they want to.

Stop trying to box it for everybody - it won’t work.
If you want to play by some rules - do it yourself, like any other player in War Mode does. And this - possibility of doing so - is one of the main things that makes War Mode and WPvP good.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Something like: trinkets that give certain stats for certain number of seconds, elixirs,potions

There are plenty of those. And since there is no PvP stats ( Thankfully! ) - I don’t see a point of restricting them to PvP-only. But there are a lot of items that can only be used in the Open World - and that is much better way, imo, to limit items usage.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

companions that heals/dps or tanks you

coming in 8.2
and that is something I don’t really like, because right now in Legion content I have Modera (frost mage) and I’m unbeatable in any 1v1 and most 1v2 simply because she has roots for days and I can do anything I want while opponent just stands waiting to play. I think NPC companions should be excluded from War Mode, but I also understand that “anything goes” so we’ll see how lucky I’m with possible companion choices. Or unlucky if others get Modera-like guard and I won’t get the same option.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

And most important, no gear rewards. You want gear? Go farm, do dungeons, lfr, raids, etc.

So, if I want to do only PvP I would have to go and farm PvE that I don’t want to do, is this what you’re suggesting?

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

One more thing i would add, to make it more rewarding and “exiting”, i would add a mechanic in wich you get kill credit, only if you last hit the enemy player.

Very unfair to all those awesome healers who save my life while I land those KBs.

[Arkamedix-twisting-nether]

@Coolgroove-defias-brotherhood

You know the main difference between your suggestions and any other player who really enjoys War Mode and WPvP for what it is - unscripted sandbox freedom - is?

Unscripted wpvp, doesnt mean that is for everyone. Then i ask you this: why on PVE they added limitations and stages? Why, when i hit 120 i cant go directly to mythic dungeon or heroic raid with 300 ilvl? Same ideology must be kept in wpvp. Show me a game where once you hit max lvl, it allows you to do everything you want without any prequisition? Without to have a certain gear,lvl,etc. Because that would create chaos,exactly what i argumented above about AOO quest and newbies joining wpvp.
Look at Archeage or Black Desert. Both games, with sandbox and freedom ideology. Do you know where they are now? At the bottom of the list. Because freedom is equal with anarchy. Thatswhy in real world we have laws, so that people cant do whatever they want.
You say about me that i want to force changes. But you? You want to force a thing that can only result in disaster. Example? What happend during last AOO quest. A clear disaster and chaos.
Second, for a free full sandbox type mmo, there isnt the tehnology yet. No game can support a full open world pvp. What means a full open world pvp? At least 50 players from both factions, total 100, killing eachother. Now, if you have more than 30 players in a location, the server starts to lag and becomes unplayable. And this happens in WoW, the best mmo and with the highest hardware&tehnology.
If you dont put limitations and rules and allow everyone and anyone to join, it will end in a disaster. There are many mmo’s that failed this topic. Thatswhy, Blizzard,avoids this sandbox style of gameplay.[quote=“Coolgroove-defias-brotherhood, post:22, topic:38136”]
There are plenty of those. And since there is no PvP stats ( Thankfully! ) - I don’t see a point of restricting them to PvP-only. But there are a lot of items that can only be used in the Open World - and that is much better way, imo, to limit items usage.
[/quote]

Thoose stats i reffered, where pvp stats. I forgot to mention that. So, to not include full pvp gear, they could add only pvp trinkets/rings that would give pvp resistance,extra dmg,etc.

@Coolgroove-defias-brotherhood

I have Modera (frost mage) and I’m unbeatable in any 1v1 and most 1v2 simply because she has roots for days

Well, taking in consideration that 80% of world pvp fights are not 1vs 1, a companion could ballance the fight. Most of the fights i haved where me vs minim 2 players,usually more.[quote=“Coolgroove-defias-brotherhood, post:22, topic:38136”]
So, if I want to do only PvP I would have to go and farm PvE that I don’t want to do, is this what you’re suggesting?
[/quote]

Yes. Dont expect that you hit 120 and you go directly to world pvp. You need to work for it. This would give Blizz a bonus (because untill you grow, days passes,subscription passes,more money). Second reason is that if they put limitations on PVE players, why they should not put limitations on PVP players? What? PVP players have 2 pairs of balls and i didnt knew? Third reason is that untill you grow, you can master the basics of your class. I fighted against many alliance players that didnt knew what they do. They hitted me with a curse/dot and run away,expecting me to die from it. This way, you cull the presence of useless noobs in PVP enviroment, as Skada culls noobs in raid enviroment.

@Coolgroove-defias-brotherhood

Very unfair to all those awesome healers who save my life while I land those KBs.

Each heal class has at least one dps spec (shaman has 1 heal spec,2 dps specs; priest has 2 heal specs,1 dps; druid has 1 heal spec and 2 dps, and so on. Why healers should be not allowed in wpvp? Because they bring unballance. Imagine 2 raids of 20 players each, meet in Stormsong Valley. First raid has 4 healers and the second raid has 1. Wich raid wins the fight? All mmo’s that respect themselfs, dont have healers in wpvp. Why? Because wpvp is a spontaneous event, not planified, chaotic. You cant compare wpvp with bg, where in bg you have a certain goal and the enemy team must stop you to achieve it.
You claim that you have high knowledge about wpvp. Yet, you dont take in consideration some facts that can ruin it.
Rules are made to avoid chaos. Thatswhy Blizzard has eula (aka WoW rules) so that everything can be done in a controlled enviroment. Imagine that WoW addons would give players certain benefits. Would you agree? Or use them too? If you would use them too, what would make you be?

[Jashindo-the-shatar]

Why not have a participation counter? As you complete more criteria for the Weekly WM Chest, you gain % on a metre. Yes, you can fill out on participation and cap your conquest or complete your weekly quest, but that participation will begin to decay over the Week while not doing activities.

Could make it harder to get participation later into the week, or grant better Weekly WM Chest loot for those with longer max participation time. Or remove the cap and rank players by an infinite level of participation? Could base quality of loot on a bracket system. Do the brackets change per week? Or is there a set static bracket each player can aim for?

Highest 0.1% on either side could get a temporarg title?

Since there are so many ways to get participation, you could feasibly do it without any true PvP. Someone high up on your realm get there without doing PvP? Does that annoy you? Hunt them down!

[Coolgroove-defias-brotherhood (Coolgroove)]

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Unscripted wpvp, doesnt mean that is for everyone.

It’s not an argument, but yes, it’s a fact. Just as every game is not for everyone, every game mode is not for everyone, M+ is not for everyone, Raids, Rated PvP … scripted game modes is not for everyone.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Then i ask you this: why on PVE they added limitations and stages? Why, when i hit 120 i cant go directly to mythic dungeon or heroic raid with 300 ilvl?

Wrong comparison. You can do as much and as you want PvE in the open world, there is no limitations.

If you want to compare something like Mythic/Heroic raids or even M+ - then you compare it to Rated PvP, and there are also limitations - you can’t go against glad team when unranked.

And if you want to say Wargames, etc - you can go and do M+/Raid on any difficulty at any ilvl (except LFR) with a group of friends. Success with low ilvl is not guaranteed tho.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Same ideology must be kept in wpvp.

No, it mustn’t.
There is no “must” for some rules in WPvP.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Show me a game where once you hit max lvl, it allows you to do everything you want without any prequisition?

Wow, with a group of friends, and/or against group of friends/ppl you know for wargames. But yeah, friends is a prerequisite… aha

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Because that would create chaos,exactly what i argumented above about AOO quest and newbies joining wpvp.

Chaos is a big part of unpredictability of anything happening in War Mode. It’s a vital part of WPvP. And it has nothing to do with AOO, because AOO happens in that chaos, not the other way around.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Look at Archeage or Black Desert. Both games, with sandbox and freedom ideology.

I don’t care about those games, and it is irrelevant to this discussion, simply because they have a lot of other problems.

Want a good sandbox MMO - EvE Online. Not the most popular, but it’s because it is a true sandbox, not a lot of ppl can handle it. Not for everyone, like you said. Still over the same life-span as WoW it manages to keep it’s population consistent. And before you try to jump it - I know what I’m talking about because I still play EvE. Unfortunately it requires a lot of time investment, so it’s switching skills most of the time, but I do roams at least once a month.

We are talking about WoW - how other games with different game-play and systems are doing is not relevant to this discussion.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Because freedom is equal with anarchy. Thatswhy in real world we have laws, so that people cant do whatever they want.

It’s a game, it’s not for real, you know?
Since you like to deviate from topic so much, tell me, do you know something about Art?

Biggest part of Art is freedom and limitless possibilities - that huge space where everything is possible if you can imagine it. Nothing is impossible for an Artist. And that is why we have so many beautiful creations.

You want to box freedom into anarchy and laws - go ahead, but it looks like box of fear first of all.

Freedom inspires creativity and resourcefulness, and it’s a fact, and yes, among other things - but, if you don’t like it, it’s your subjective opinion and that’s why freedom is not for everyone, just like the lack of it.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

You say about me that i want to force changes. But you?

Yes, you do. And no, I’m not.
WPvP in WoW was always without rules. It was an unscripted sandbox environment from the start. I don’t want to make it scripted and with some rules - I want to improve on what’s already there.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

You want to force a thing that can only result in disaster. Example? What happend during last AOO quest. A clear disaster and chaos.

You said I want to force something, and your example is about something that is already in-game, and something I don’t like. It’s a fail in argument. Try again.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Second, for a free full sandbox type mmo, there isnt the tehnology yet. No game can support a full open world pvp. What means a full open world pvp? At least 50 players from both factions, total 100, killing eachother. Now, if you have more than 30 players in a location, the server starts to lag and becomes unplayable. And this happens in WoW, the best mmo and with the highest hardware&tehnology.

First - EvE online - go read about 1000s battles.
Second - I don’t want WoW to change into full sandbox game, and I never said anything like that.

Stop trying to derail into something irrelevant. It won’t work with me.

WoW has problems with it’s sharding technology, and currently it lags as hell sometimes. But it’s not a reason to add rules for WPvP. It’s a reason to improve sharding scripts/code and/or servers.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

If you dont put limitations and rules and allow everyone and anyone to join, it will end in a disaster.

You are trying to present it as a fact and like something that is certain. Since you clearly can’t predict future, and can’t provide any proofs that you like - that statement is a pure speculation based on you tastes/wishes/fears/whatever.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

There are many mmo’s that failed this topic.

Someones else failure is only a lesson for a smarter one. Again, you are trying to speculate just because you don’t like it.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Thatswhy, Blizzard,avoids this sandbox style of gameplay.

And one of the major features of this expansion is War Mode, and more dynamic content for points of potential conflicts is coming in 8.2
Avoids… got it.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Thoose stats i reffered, where pvp stats. I forgot to mention that. So, to not include full pvp gear, they could add only pvp trinkets/rings that would give pvp resistance,extra dmg,etc.

No thank you. I like the absence of PvP-only stats, they never made sense to me and were a needless complication, IMO. With that - those stats are part of much bigger PvP design philosophy than what we’re discussing here.

I get it, you like to go all over the place and nowhere at once, but try to keep it about this thread. If you have arguments about this thread ofc.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Well, taking in consideration that 80% of world pvp fights are not 1vs 1

Have any proof about that number? You like proofs right?

In my experience - very often, when I chose to go on my solo roam around KT & Zandalar - at least 80% of fights are 1v1.

You see, it proves nothing, except - everyones experience in WPvP is based on the choices they make.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

a companion could ballance the fight.

As you can see from how it goes for me in Legion content - it can also cause a dis-balance. But as I’ve said - it’s np, anything goes in WPvP, and everybody has access to the same/similar stuff.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Yes. Dont expect that you hit 120 and you go directly to world pvp.

So when it’s convenient for you - you use “not for everyone”, and here - because you want to force everyone to do PvE - you’ve skipped it. Haha

I don’t like PvE. And if game forces me to do PvE to be able to do PvP - I’m out. Remember you posts about players leaving? That’s the result of your suggestion right now.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

You need to work for it.

In PvP, not PvE.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

This would give Blizz a bonus (because untill you grow, days passes,subscription passes,more money).

So I should do something that I don’t like in game because it would give Blizz a bonus? Whaaaat? Muahahahahaha

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Second reason is that if they put limitations on PVE players, why they should not put limitations on PVP players?

There are limitations for PvP players. Just because you don’t participate in game-modes to experience those limitations doesn’t mean the game needs more, ffs.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

What? PVP players have 2 pairs of balls and i didnt knew?

Delusions spontaneously kicked in hard?

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Third reason is that untill you grow, you can master the basics of your class.

Mastery of a class in PvE means NOTHING in PvP.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

I fighted against many alliance players that didnt knew what they do. They hitted me with a curse/dot and run away,expecting me to die from it. This way, you cull the presence of useless noobs in PVP enviroment, as Skada culls noobs in raid enviroment.

OK, only once I’ll share this wisdom of common sense with you - For noobs in PvP to stop being noobs in PvP they need to do PvP, and there is no other way.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Each heal class has at least one dps spec

So now you want to exclude whole role from WPvP and force players to change specs.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Why healers should be not allowed in wpvp?

Yeah, tell me, hahahaha

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Because they bring unballance.

BADAM-TSSSSSSSSSSS

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Imagine

No, I’m not into those delusions.
If you want set numbers for healers or any other roles for your PvP - there are already modes for that - go for RBGs.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

All mmo’s that respect themselfs, dont have healers in wpvp.

Hahahahahahaha, any examples?

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

wpvp is a spontaneous event, not planified, chaotic.

at least you understand this. Not as hopeless as I was beginning to think.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

You cant compare wpvp with bg, where in bg you have a certain goal and the enemy team must stop you to achieve it.

And yet, you want to force some rules, ilvls, limit roles, etc - like it suppose to be some kind of scripted BG size of open world.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

You claim that you have high knowledge about wpvp. Yet, you dont take in consideration some facts that can ruin it.

No, no, no. Don’t even go there, it’s going to be very embarrassing for you.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Rules are made to avoid chaos.

Where you want to avoid it - I want to enjoy it.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Thatswhy Blizzard has eula (aka WoW rules) so that everything can be done in a controlled enviroment. Imagine that WoW addons would give players certain benefits.

You can’t go without pulling unrelated stuff like it has anything to do with the topic of discussion. Are your arguments really so thin? Rules in EULA already include all types of game-play, WPvP too.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Would you agree?

No.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Imagine that WoW addons would give players certain benefits.

They already do - subjective benefits - possibility for better more usable UI.

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

Would you agree? Or use them too?

I use them now, even custom tailor about 80% of all UI to make it more convenient to use for myself. Have no problem with that or anyone who are doing the same. If you can’t - it’s not my problem that you don’t want to learn how.

---

To sum it up - you know why you get replies like “Turn it OFF” ?
Because:

@Arkamedix-twisting-nether

doesnt mean that is for everyone

You want to change WPvP into something that it never was - scripted environment with rules. And very bad rules.
Thankfully - it will never happen.

Cheers!

[Vaëyn-ravencrest (Vaëyn)]

Support for this doesn’t seem that high. I think it would be a good way to unite everything we do in WM, and reward consistent participation. Should increase conflict even more, and avoid the issue of very temp wm on. On/off is okay, but easier to form stable groups if players are in wm longer. Prob a better solution than wm toggle time limits, removing aoo and bonus, etc. which will just not happen. This unifying quest has more potential to happen. Pls Blz.