Summoner's embrace vs Grimoire of Sacrifice

Classes Warlock
1

Which one you prefer and why? All guides show to pick SE. is it a big loss on dps?

2

its a dps loss and ontop of that you become less tanky thanks via soul link.
It also forces you to cast your interrupt so you have to stop long cast if you need to interrupt which is arguebly also a dps loss.

2 Likes
3

Oh dang! I wish we could be without a demon on destro or affliction

1 Like
4

Unfortunately, the difference between the two talents is far too great, and Summoner’s Embrace is vastly superior to Grimoire of Sacrifice in every way. I wrote “unfortunately” because I enjoy playing without a demon much more.

I’d also like Demonology itself to benefit from Grimoire of Sacrifice, considering it’s a talent originally from the Demonology talent tree in vanilla

5

Summoner’s Embrace… Because as others have pointed out, it’s not even a question.
Summoner’s Embrace is superior in every aspect.

6

Which I find to be poor design. We have so many talents that do pretty much the same thing. No originality. You will always pick Summoner because it’s mandatory.

1 Like
7

The meaning of two talents in a mode choise in which all the possible components are clearly superior in one talent is absolutely incomprehensible

1 Like
8

grimoire needs to be there for situations where you dont want your pet to be alive
it has its uses in pvp
and no it wouldnt fit the pvp talent slot

9

I feel that main demons need to be rebalanced to feel more viable as the damage source.
And grimoire of sacrifice should be redesigned to be a decent replacement for the warlock and yet give something extra for the loss of the demon.

10

i feel that as well. they never die except solo content, and they dont do any dmg as well they are just there for passive.
I would prefer demon summoning to be only a Demonology thing, and Affl and Destro just be casters.

ALSO I WOULD LOVE A WARLOCK TANK, Staff and shield

1 Like
11

I think Affli and Destro need to have a solid choice in talents that would give them a way to play with or without demon.
Demons are too baked into warlock class fantasy.

3 Likes
12

I completely agree. That would require a hard look at soul link and other spells that increase our stamina and our pets.

My concern is that a vocal minority would not be prepared for such a revamp. Sadly, our “tankyness” is linked to our pets.

I personally like the idea of Aff and Destro calling demons to do their job (something like call Felthunter)

13

By the way, the extra stamina with sacrifice was 10% and was halved in PvP because people were furious at seeing the warlock with so much health.

But now, despite the talents to increase health and stamina and the grimoire of sacrifice… do you notice all this difference compared to the other classes in terms of total health? I see almost no difference between my health and that of a mage with the same items

14

How do you imagine that even working?

Demonology is the “Demon summoner”-spec, a big part of the spec tree is improvements to your fel/wrathguard, there’s no getting around it, the Fel/Wrathguard is an integral part of Demo gameplay.

I can’t speak for Affliction and Destruction (I love the demon summoning theme of Demonology, so i play that spec exclusively), but “I want to play the demon specialist spec, but without the demon!” sounds rather… well, silly to me.

15

Obviously, with the current talent tree, it’s not possible to integrate the Grimoire of Sacrifice into Demonology, but that doesn’t mean you can’t summon demons. Sacrifice sacrifices the main demon, not all demons

The grimoire of sacrifice is a purely demonology talent, I would like to be able to play demonology in various ways: without a main demon, with any demon

1 Like
16

I mean, it worked amazingly back then.

Sacrifice your succubus and land big shadowbolt crits. It was ridiculously OP up until WotLK.

Now demo is all about recycling imps and dogs.

17

While i can agree with “any demon” (Being stuck with using just one demon type or we’re actively gimping ourselves isn’t really “Master demon summoner” to me, even making it purely cosmetic would do), wanting Demo without main demon would be like wanting BM hunters with “Lone wolf”: Going entirely against the design of the spec…

18

but not having a main demon doesn’t mean you can’t summon a hundred of them anyway. You’ll make timed summons, depending on the situation, to replace the main demon

The spec focuses on the concept of a “master summoner,” but that doesn’t mean you need to have a felguard/demon at your side at all times