To start with the Sunken Temple raid was way overtuned and our guild couldnt clear the instance either of our 2 first runs. This led to frustrations and burnout, and people left the guild and paused playing.
We were a group of friends about 12 ppl and struggeled to fill the 20 man raid roster, but finally did. However since we couldnt clear the raids ppl quit and now we’re in kind of a limbo where guild members are unmotivated, and we cant really have our next raid because of this…
We just needed a casual raiding experience with friends, where we dont have to recruit ppl actively to be able to raid.
20 man was just too big of a change, and it made SoD experience different in a bad way.
I suggest you change the raid to 10 or 15 man, or atleast offer the option to run it, but provide less loot
Now you know why there is LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic in Retail. SoD will try to have a hard raid in the first week and find a middle ground between MFR and Normal. The problem is just that probably even Normal is too hard for the average SoD Player.
If the team is smart they will do 2 modes. One super easy mode and one hard mode with vanity and maybe consumables rewards (but not better items).
Like, this is crazy to me. Sunken Temple can’t get any easier than this, bosses are literally dying in 30 seconds. Are you sure you’re playing with mouse and keyboard?
I wouldnt say 10-15, but wouldnt mind if they flat out said 20 was good going forward. If they do another phase of “time to double your roster”, we’ll lose groups, guilds and PUGs. Size =//= Difficulty.
Just to make it clear, I dont think the difficulty is the problem for people (becuase its easy). Its the organization around it, finding people, getting friends/former smaller guilds under the same roof etc. Its P2 TBC all over again for many people, either try finding PUGs each raid to fill, or find a guild that wants to take 8-12 people in a bunch and hope you’ll enjoy content together like you have to this point. In most cases it becomes a project that alot of people cant be asked with, and so sinks motivation, sence of community and everything else that usually keeps people playing. Getting a new item isnt carrot enough if its done with randoms or without friends for some people.
Well. i understand your frustration : / But i believe 20m is great. And imo all future raids should stay 20m.
Perhaps merging with another guild, or find another guild with your mates is the best solution at this point.
The raid really is pretty laidback after the nerfs. It does take a few cordination here and there. but nothing major.
No i dont agree, 20 man is alot better for group compositions and gives the less meta classes a bigger chance to join, be it as support or otherwise.
in 10man you basically had a melee raid or a caster raid or a gimped middle ground.
the problem is they did not start out as 20man but rather 10man, so now we se guild and comunities struggle to find more people, and some of them will die cause the players will not come from nothing.
This. In 10-man you have barely any room to try and optimize your team composition to everyone’s liking. Either casters suffer or melees suffer. 20-man is perfect going forward.
Just out of pure curiosity as I am one of those struggling inside of this raid, what was your raiding experience prior to SoD? Did you raid in WOTLK and/or retail and at what level of difficulty did you raid at?
My recent retail expansion was WoD, when I was 12, never raided in retail. I’ve raided in classic vanilla/tbc/wrath. Quit wrath in P2. Cleared Ulduar in 2 hours. That’s all the raiding experience. You don’t have to be a mythic+ 50 to comprehend the 2 mechanics in Sunken Temple
The reason they brought in 20 man is because the first level 60 raids in classic are 40 man. Guilds are going to have to begin to merge as they move towards larger raid sizes.
The problem is that there are people who are just turrets in raids, don’t want to do mechanics, don’t want to bring consumes, don’t want to learn even if you explain them simple things or are just bad playing, there is nothing wrong saying it, it’s the truth, there are people who can’t really play well even if the raid was nerfed to oblivion and when it’s even easier than retail LFR.
BRD (and most of the bosses from Gnomer) coddled the playerbase too much, specially those who don’t know how to play or who don’t want to learn.
A great deal of players expected raid loot by just standing like a turret ignoring mechanics like in most of the vanilla raids. They shouldn’t make the raids too difficult because it’s vanilla, true, but the loot piñatas we had in BRD and Gnomer were a bad idea because people thought SoD was going to be season of no effort and season of leaving the raid after 1 wipe because their heart can’t handle 1 wipe.
ST is literally farm raid. No challenge… People need to start to learn that they don’t need to clear 8/8 s much better system would be for like 90% to clear 2/8, 70% 4/8, 50% 6/8 and 30% 8/8 in the first 4-5 resets. Then as worse players start to get a little gear they would be able to clear further. At end of phase anyone who wants to try all bosses should be able to, but to make it so anyone and their grandma can complete it makes the game worthless because it lacks accomplishment. At end of phase if 70% of active raiders have beaten it at least once then the difficulty would be good. The bottom 30 can get carried in next phase by lv 60s. No point in making everything accessible to anyone. Then there’s no point in clearing it in the first place
Since this phase might only be 4-5 lockouts it would be a bad idea. Even if it was 8 lockouts this phase makes 4-5 more than half the phase. Also the fact that both classes and proffesion is locked deep into the raid dosent make it better.