The pendulum swings.
This logic is just patently false. If SV was overtuned would it draw some more players? Yeah. Is SV being weak the reason it’s a mostly-ignored spec? Absolutely not.
Why? BM is performing worse-than-or-similar-to SV in Castle Nathria (dependant on what parameters you analyse) but it still has THIRTY times more representation.
SV is a wasted opportunity right now, it’s routinely the least represented spec every single patch because people just find it awful to play. People don’t play a Hunter if they want to be budget-Warrior; Hunter instead draws people who want to use a bow. That’s all there is to it.
A rework would help, because right now Survival plays like they asked 4 different people to come up with a simple mechanic, then shoehorned them into one class with very little synergy between them and often, instead, counterplay. But it’d be far easier to simply make it ranged again, that’d help bring players back to it in a heartbeat.
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Survival was the best dps in uldir and they saw 0 play.
They were also a top 1-3 dps in crucible but that was a small tier and there were only a few sv logs.
Dps is not the problem. The fact that ranged are far easier to play and the utility from all hunter specs is exactly the same is the reason sv sees low representation
As well as countless wow youtubers talking smack about the spec how bad it was/clunky/low dps etc, when literraly jone of them played the spec correctly or knew wtf they were talking about
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hmm no. i have a warrior, a rogue , a enh cham, a ww monk , a dk and no one feel like a sv hunter. I play this toon/ hunter since vanilla, it’s my main charater, i was an " archer " for a long time and i love it. But the hybrid Sv game style is unique in this game and i love it more.
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I agree I like melee SV it’s very fun and unique also for pvp people don’t realise it’s actually a ranged spec there mostly feels like the hunter I know and loved from way back just wish we could have a bow to complete the fantasy of it (two weapon slots as per OG deign)
We do however need something may emout a buff on mosdrect for. Tanks in raids and groups for the duration so you can use it as a soft-soak mechanic
i loved the debuff “expose weakness” that we put on bc. i was the only Sv hunter in my guild/ raid just to put it in black temple when all the bm trust the damage metter spamming one macro 
At the end with the stuff i beat them ^^
Man, there are a LOT of people in this thread who clearly don’t play/understand how SV hunters work.
SV hunter is actually pretty strong in ST, especially with some talent/leggo combinations, namely Steel Trap and Nessingwary’s, which turns you into a Mongoose Bite spamming machine. On the AoE side, Wildfire Bombs are the trusty ol’ reliable. Them being uncapped in AoE is really nice, even if it does suck to run out of them then have to turn to weak ol’ Carve. But once you get them back again, good times flows!
And yes, I’m not one to deny that SV doesn’t feel like it is slightly weaker than the ranged specs due to the fact that the ranged specs have basically the same utility as SV has, only they can assure constant uptime rather than the 15 seconds of uptime we get during Aspect of the Eagle windows, but it still performs really well.
I’m sure there are a lot of small changes Blizz could (and maybe should) make to the spec to shake up our talent choices at the very least though. After all, Guerrilla Tactics is a must-have in all situations, and 99.9% of everyone will take Posthaste too. I also feel bad for Chakrams/Hydra’s Bite/Butchery.
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I disagree, If you want to bring old SV back, make it a forth spec, maybe a dark ranger or something.
As it stands SV is much harder to play to get the top numbers. Sure if you get everything right you can outperform people, but the effort required is much higher.
I mean look at all the threads about people crying over tar trap flares. That stuff is second nature from the old caltrops.
I will say for BFA In my case I just stuck to the one spec for most of my characters, simply because of the investment to have 7-8 different optimal azurite pieces, with the right maxed out essences etc.
Have a read on my post. I really hope Blizz give us some much needed attention.
Whilst I wish this was the case I can’t even get into a +7 PUG without being removed because I wield a 2h and not a bow. Playing Surv in PVE just attracts toxic players calling you a noob before removing you from the group after you have wait s 3 hours for a tank to join.
I want nothing more than for SV to be improved. Blizzard of your listening please help a brother out!
This is the worst review of SV hunters. They have no feedback on them, refer to no logs or anything. Clearly they have no idea how SV plays so just say ‘I love this spec it’s going S tier moving on’ such a poor review.
Spamming your thread which is just a smaller less intricate version of several threads we’ve had throughout BFA doesn’t help, much less on EU forums and with lack of class devs.
And as I said, people who decline a SV hunter are morons with our AoE being what it is. Alternatively don’t pug or make your own groups instead.
But seriously stop spamming your post, you can risk someone flagging you for spamming and getting a forum silence or ban for it, saying it for your own good.
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How do you suggest we get the devs attention then? Shall we all just roll over? Shall we just report each other for spamming posts that are asking for positive change? Sounds like a great idea… eye roll.
I was very naieve to think making a post and trying to drum up support would actually work. All I see on these forums is people being toxic to each other. The more I think about it the more I realise how the devs won’t be looking at these forums.
This will be my last post. Complete waste of time.
Collate all the SV threads together every week from NA and EU and others if you can read the language and tweet the links to the WoW twitter
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you know what that is such an obvious call.
I feel stupid 
you want logs ?
those are statistics from warcraftLogs. take 95 percentil (and 99 in normal) because people under that just don’t know how to play their class/can’t master it/had a bad fight.
mythic castle nathria (95 percentil):
overall : not including because it has no value, SV not being represented on all bosses.
shriekwings: 2,954 dps (last)
altimor: 4,959 dps (last)
that’s all data we have for mythic
heroic castle nathria (95 percentil):
overall: 3,970 dps (6th last)
shriekwing : 2,834 dps (5th last)
altimore: 4,824 dps (6th last)
hungering destroyer: 3,875 dps (8th last)
sun’s king: 4,560 dps (10th last)
artificer: 3,436 dps (last)
darvein: 3,400 dps (3rd last)
counsil: 3,079 dps (7th last)
sludgefist: 4,701 dps (7th last)
stone legion: 3,234 dps (2nd last)
denatrius: 4,180 dps (9th best)
normal castle nathria (99 percentil):
overall: 3,700 dps (4th last)
shriekwing : 3,166 dps (4th last)
altimore: 4,685 dps (4th last)
hungering destroyer: 3,550 dps (3th last)
sun’s king: 3,998 dps (8th last)
artificer: 3,358 dps (last)
darvein: 3,808 dps (2nd last)
counsil: 2,859 dps (6th last)
sludgefist: 4,162 dps (4th last)
stone legion: 4,068 dps (10th best)
denatrius: 4,271 dps (12th last)
that’s bad without a doubt. everyone knows it, even so that there is a stigma around the class (justified) preventing it from even showing up in the competitive scene.
at worse, SV needs numbers pumped up, at best, some love and the rework that it didn’t have with the coming of shadowlands.
for quick history:
Survival
- The following Talents have been adjusted:
- [Tip of the Spear] now causes [Kill Command] to increase the damage of your next [Raptor Strike] by 25% (was 20%), stacking up to 3 times.
- [Flanking Strike] now has a 30 second cooldown (was 40 seconds).
- [Chakrams] now costs 15 focus (was 30).
- [Carve] and [Butchery] now capped at 5 targets.
only number changes, no new mechanics. clearly the state of the spec is fine * eye roll *
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This makes me sad… I really love the spec, havent had this much fun in wow since wotlk, the expansion is fun, the spec is fun and i enjoy the spells, animations and rotation.
Its just the numbers that arent there imo… Sure som rework and love would be awesome as well, but for now i would be happy with a bit of numbers tuning.
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Luckily we can just pretty much transfer stats spec to spec sure it won’t be optimal but we can so that’s something.
I love survival too shame it’s in such a sorry state
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