Survival, unlike Feral, actually works though and doesn’t require you to tapdance while juggling 5 plates to do DPS.
There’s just no reason to play the spec because BM does everything it does but is also ranged, which is a huge advantage. The spec needs something that makes it actually unique in terms of utility.
From pure utility aspect I agree with you, but If players find the spec to be fun and engaging ( like myself ) than that should be reason enough to play it.
Sure, but then you go and try to progressing in a raid and quickly realize that you are gimping yourself by playing a melee spec when your ranged specs do just as much or more damage without any of the melee downsides.
There needs to be something that makes people go “oh damn, it would be really great if you could respec to Survival for this cause they can do X that other specs can’t do”, and currently there literally isn’t a single thing like that, so anybody that cares for min-maxing will be staying away from Survival.
And since the meta trickles down from the top Survival gets considered bad even though it really isn’t bad in a general sense.
Considering most fights today are to around 90% about actually doing mechanics right instead of staring at damage meters/numbers then this is more of a perception problem rather than an actual problem the spec has.
Besides, very few DPS focused specs have stuff that could be considered “must-haves” when raiding.
Most of the time when for example a priority target in an encounter does not die in time and you get overwhelmed/wipe because of it. This is not because you have brought the wrong classes/specs. It’s because people can’t bring themselves to stop AoE-ing or multi-dot’ing or w/e, in favor of actually focusing down that add asap.
I would take a Survival hunter that knows how to switch to prio-targets/use ST abilities when supposed to over a multi-dot’ing warlock(edit: *any class that want to multi-dot or AoE heavily) any day.
90% of fights also heavily favor ranged classes over melee. You’re kinda doing yourself and your raid a disservice by playing melee while having the option of being ranged (if you are serious about progression raiding, anyway).
This would be considered a problem not only for Survival but for all melee specs. Thus making this less of a spec specific problem and instead it becomes more of a encounter design-issue.
Thinking like this, you might as well remove specs like: Survival, Enhancement, and Feral from the game entirely. What comes next? The removal of all melee specs in the game?
You cannot put blame on specific specs with the intent on giving them something to make them more attractive for raid spots. If you give 1 spec something that makes them stand out over other specs filling the same role as yours then everyone would want only that. Certain perks can be considered good options in order to keep every spec within the game from feeling identic to one another. But there is a very fine line which you cannot cross without making a spec THE SPEC that everyone must play.
Tbh, the last time I can remember the hunter class having something good enough to make people say: “Hey, we really want X hunter(s) for this”. That was in WoD when hunters had Aspect of the Fox that was beneficial to the entire raid(casters/healers) when used.
Since then, hunters haven’t really had anything important enough to bring for raids.
The only raid so far where being melee is a disservice to your raid group is Crucible, which in and of itself is a horribly designed raid (I still like it though).
Generally speaking you can play whatever the heck you want for progression, even mythic. Unless you’re top 10/100 or whatever it won’t matter anyway.
Raiding has become ever the more focused on mechanics > DPS, so yeah you can bring meta top dog DPS, but if the player is terrible and not swapping then what is the point?
None of that is still an objective argument for why anybody should play Survival or why a raid leader would want one instead of a ranged hunter.
Feral, and only Feral, has Stampeding Roar and an actual interrupt on top of other druid utility. Can DPS on the move.
Enhancement has the same utility as Elemental, minus the knockback afaik. Maybe they have an additional AoE slow with talents. Can DPS on the move.
Survival has all the base utility of the other specs, but has a shorter cooldown interrupt, loses access to exotic pets and has a less efficient Misdirect in some situations. Can DPS on the move, but so can Beastmastery, and to a limited extent, Marks.
How many lolFerals and Enhancement Shamans do you see around? Sure, it’s because the specs have other problems on top of being melee, but being melee still has a lot to do with the desirability of the specs in raids.
If Survival had a Stampeding Roar equivalent or a unique trap that was actually useful it would already be a big deal for making the spec more desirable.
In the end it does the same stuff as BM, but with 35 less range, meaning there is no objective reason to play it unless it does significantly more DPS than the ranged versions. And this isn’t just a problem with Survival. Other specs suffer from similar problems as well after all the pruning.
I never felt, nor did I ever hear anyone in my guild tell me to reroll into MM or BM.
I was able to do the mechanics ( fails happend ) and was more than able to compete with the meta dps.
That being said, we didnt have the best of the best, but most of them was way above average.
Survival is really cool, feels like it has a really smooth play style, looks great aesthetically and feels pretty strong. I am not originally a hunter main I just made a this alt specifically because I thought survival looked fun. Granted, the majority of my gameplay is arenas where survival is extremely strong but even in PvE it just feels smooth to play.
I can’t think of a single fight in BfA where stampeding roar is considered crucial. It has it’s upsides sure, but again, there are very few situations we can find ourselves in where stampeding roar would be such a massive help.
Interrupts are for the most part a non-argument as the majority of specs brings them in some way. Sure, some specs have a shorter CD and that can idd be helpful, but that only becomes an issue if your raid actually runs out of interrupts. For the most part, if you wipe due to something not being interrupted it’s because someone messed up. Not because you we’re lacking interrupts.
One of the bigger upsides with playing Survival over other melee specs is that if you find yourself in a situation where melee combat is not an option for a set amount of time. Due to w/e reason. Survival in that case can do most(with CD, even all) of it’s damage from afar.
Having said that, again, there are very few situations where this would be considered crucial. But yeah, there are some advantages with the hybrid gameplay.
The only real upside with playing BM over Survival is the fact that you can bring a Spirit Beast pet for the Spirit Mend which is a strong on-demand heal usable on yourself or on any friendly target really. Can be quite helpful sometimes.
Survival on the other hand. More damage comes from you(the hunter) so having a ferocity pet for the leech is more beneficial compared to what it would be for BM.
The issue of using abilities from afar, yeah…BM has no huge advantage here either.
Besides, most stuff that needs dodging in order for you to not die/wipe the raid can be solved by every single class/spec as long as they pre-plan what their next steps should be.
If your raid plays by reacting to mechanics then yeah, having a full raid of ranged players is helpful. But if your team knows how to deal with stuff even before they happen, there can very well be quite a few melee players in the raid.
If you’re in a guild that is not playing at top-tier level but are still demanding something like this from you then they need to change their way of thinking. I can guarantee you that forcing people to switch specs simply because, as an example, melee is not favored in a particular fight, this still will not be what wins the fight for you. You most likely have bigger problems than that.
Awesome, glad you like the melee version. Nothing wrong with this.
Again, as long as you’re not playing at a competitive top-tier level then what spec you play as doesn’t really matter. And if you’re trying to get into a guild, and in order for them to accept you, they demand that you switch spec, if it isn’t a top tier guild then just look for another guild. With realistic expectations…
This is very true.
I can only speak for myself here but I’m not a fan of melee combat. The fact that they removed the DoT-based ranged Survival in favor of a melee spec was NOT something that I liked. Now, the hunter class has no proper DoT spec.
Having said that, at this stage I’m NOT going to argue for the removal of melee survival just to get the ranged version back. The fact that they did the opposite in the first place with Legion, let’s just say that it wasn’t the best choice made. If they wanted an entirely new type of spec for the class then that should’ve been added as a 4th spec and not replacing an existing one.
But again, we all like things different. Just how it is.
Think you miss read my post ![:wink:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
No no, I’m aware that you haven’t encountered this yet. I was mostly writing that down for anyone who might have.
Basically I said that, in case someone do encounter a guild that tells them to switch specs(in regards to pure dps classes, not hybrids) simply due to perceived upsides in damage output, if that guild is not top-tier then there isn’t really motivation to do something like this. Or at least there shouldn’t be…
Ok then, my bad ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
No problem!
I can understand how you might’ve thought that I did not interpret your post the right way.
Surv is more of a dungeony / PVP Kinda spec so it is rare yeah.
right now it’s only pvp tho, aoe is not great compared to many other spec/classes and with the current +10 affix aoe is key
True the aoe is not the best, but with proper managment, tho it’s aids for your hands. The AoE can be pretty nice, the sad part is that it takes alot of setup compared to other classes. The multidotting is a pain, but when you get it right, then it’s quite satisfying.
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