Better.
Though if you want balance don’t expect people to support vengeance nerfs, dh mains wont obviously and the others probably forgot that vengeance existed. It needs a few more months of dominance, especially because it’s a tank, for the crowd to catch up.
Bear does need buffs though, but Idk I never liked bear tanking anyways. Feels like budget warrior.
luffa surely would help with dps and threat and even with kiting.
From the start i understood that your problem is guardian druid lacking… And that vengeance dh plays as it should ,not that needs a nerf.
I don’t understand why people got triggered and made it a dh topic instead, so much more about if havoc isn’t good…
Guardian will be fine once we can equip 2 legendaries
When we can have both Ursocs Fury + Luffa Infused Embrace guardian will have more than enough dps with 4 stacks of thrash + pawsitive outlook passive
There is no time for n stacks of Thrash. In 2-3 seconds you have lost all your targets if a VDH is around. Maybe you are lucky and can hold on to your main target. He did 7.5K-8.5K on trash, he was beating most DPS, our ilvl is 190. He was not taking aggro from me on Single Target, but AoE has to be seen to be believed.
Are you doing really high keys? On low keys and 8th layer torghast i never had problem, on the other hand i am losing aggro with my DH tank a bit more than i would like, maybe i just need to learn the class better.
I tanked Torghast with my guardian at 180 ilvl and the dpses were 200+ ilvl pulling ahead of me and i never lost aggro.
Eh, what? Are you serious? You can’t be playing Guardian properly if you think this.
I think the DPS isn’t great but that doesn’t matter in dungeons and raids as your job is to soak it up anyway. While playing solo it just means you take a bit longer to kill stuff but compromise with the ability to stand up to practically anything, even at a relatively low gear level.
And, if you think it’s just a couple of buttons to play Guardian, then my initial conclusion is true, and you’re playing it wrong.
What about essential survival stuff like survival instincts, frenzied regeneration, barkskin and Ironfur? Your healer will thank you and you will always need to be maintaining these.
Interupts? Taunts? Basic tank stuff.
I played DH as a tank in BFA for a while and they do a good job but I seriously preferred Guardian. I’ve never found it lacking compared to other tanking classes.
So nerfing VDH dmg by 50% wouldnt matter then. Hear that Blizz, just nerf VDH dmg, it doesnt matter anyways.
Afaik r1 bear has timed “only” +19and few non timed 20s?
Also, we had bear amomg top, like top 3 or so tank overal, who was bear ( dorki) but that was one in a milion… Top 100 runs had 80 warriors but 3rd one was druid, does thatmean druid was as good as warr?
Dont get me wrong, it definitely wasnt bad, and isnt even now ( even tho i havent done much on dudu so far) but druid ( and others too probably) could use some dmg and threat buff.
Why does this even matter? In m+ you obviously won’t have 2 tanks, and in raids trash is irrelevant.
Do not assume 
I know all my buttons and all my abilities, thank you.
I am talking explicitly about Guardian’s DPS, AoE DPS, and resultant threat generation. You tank alongside a VDH, charge into a pack of adds together, and let’s see which buttons you will press. In less than 2-3 seconds you have lost all your aggro and you’d be lucky to even hold on to your main target. I would invite you to show me your rotation in this situation.
Considering that VDH was matching the top DPSers with his AoE, I would suggest the solution is not ONLY to buff the Guardian but also to balance all tanks accordingly. It is nuts that any tank overtakes pure DPS classes in AoE. If I were that DPS class I will think, “hmm OK, so which buttons did I not press?”
I played extensively on the beta, many months, and I can tell you that class damage, ST and AoE, is not carved in stone, neither is the result of elaborate council deliberations at headquarters. It is all done ad hoc, retrospectively, knee jerk reactions; this is not a finished product, just as the beta was not a finished product.
Tanks matching the dps is not that crazy, think about it, tanks have many aoe spams on low or no cooldown and no matter what happens they facetank all mobs while dps have capped aoe abilities on medium cooldowns since shadowlands and have to do the tactics meaning much less time with the boss/pack to play your rotation.
To your other point if you tank alongside a VDH it means you are in raid, so what is this? a tanking competition? Does it really matter if the VDH aggros packs more than you? and thats not on the long run because yes maybe VDH can burst aggro in the first 5-6 seconds but guardian will always overtake him in sustained aoe damage.
Well, he’s not entirely wrong about the ‘buttons to press’ and ‘everything is on cd’ tho (yes even Guardian has defensives and basic tank abilities…).
The main resource generators have a CD (apart from a proc chance). This obviously means that your resources are limited and that you have some if not frequent moments where you have barely any choice as in what to press.
And well, putting even more focus on Moonfire due to the AoE-cap in AoE fights is just a poor design imo.
This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.